At 03:12 PM 6/24/01 +0200 J. van Baardwijk wrote:
>At 14:21 24-6-01 +0200, I wrote:
>
>>Perhaps you should reread the recent discussions you and Charlie had. I'm
>>pretty sure you'll find the reason in there. You may have to read between
>>the lines a bit, but it's there.
>
>While doing some archive-digging for a reply to an other post, I found out
>you don't even have to read between the lines: it's all there in black and
>white:
>
>At 21:17 21-6-01 +0300, Charlie Bell wrote:
>>Calm and rational debate went out the window in Brin-L when it changed into
>>a place for soap-box patriots to decry any criticism of the States as
>>anti-americanism, and for the "conservatives" to denounce everyone else as
>>ignorant fools.
>>
>>In the last couple of months, I've been called a racist and anti-american,
>>been informed of what I know and what I think by people who have never
>>actually asked, and been pushed into anger that I have never felt while on a
>>mailing list.
>>
>>I've said it before, Brin-L isn't a debating society, it's not a
>>competition, and it's certainly not a place for this sort of infighting. If
>>we don't get back to the friendly, rambling pub-style conversation of old, I
>>won't be bothering anymore, it's just not worth my getting upset over this.
>>
>>However, in one last attempt to see if this place can sort itself out, I'll
>>apologise for any offence I caused you, Gautam, by things I said in anger.
>>
>>If anyone feels that is unacceptable, I'll take myself off Brin-L at least
>>until Kiln People is published.
>>
>>Charlie
>
>Now, John, exactly what part about that don't you understand?
First, the above list of reasons was apparently *not* enough for him to
unsubscribe, something else had to happen afterwards to push him over the
edge.
Secondly, only one person came close to implying that Charlie was a racist,
at that situation worked itself out with mutual apologies.
Thirdly, on the issue of misstating Charlie's opinions, the *minute* that
Charlie accused me of misstating them, I immediately e-mailed him off-List
so that I could correct the error.
Fourthly, I never intended to call Charlie an Anti-American. Its an
extremely complicated mis-understanding, that I think would be best if we
did not get into. I would have attempted to clear up the misunderstanding
with him, but I never dreamed that someone who holds America in as low
esteem as Charlie does would ever dream of leaving the List for being
called "Anti-American."
Finally, this criticism of turning Brin-L into a "debating society" rather
than a "pub-style competition has been raised before, but I am not sure at
all that I understand it. I have simply been doing what I have been doing
since my first days on the List - attempting to present conservatism in the
most convincing way possible. If someone can differentiate for me the
difference between how I have presented right-wing opinions with the way
that others have presented left-wing opinions, I would certainly be most
interested in listening.
Anyone may feel free to pass this along to Charlie, because, as noted
earlier, I have no means of either apologizing to him or explaining
misunderstandings.
JDG
__________________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ICQ #3527685
We are products of the same history, reaching from Jerusalem and
Athens to Warsaw and Washington. We share more than an alliance.
We share a civilization. - George W. Bush, Warsaw, 06/15/01
