----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Coster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Brin-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:32 AM Subject: Death of the West (L3ish)
> Certainly the aging populations in the west (as a proportion of total > population) does mean that welfare/pension schemes could run into trouble. > But that is as much a problem with how common wealth is redistributed than > anything else. I think it is more than that. Take the German pension plan that allows for retirement with the government guaranteeing 70% of salary at age 61. (It has just been reformed to reduce it to 67% at age 61 by 2030). As it stands now, one third of the paychecks of working Germans goes to pay for this plan. When the demographic bulge (currently at 30-45) moves to 60-75, things will become difficult. Yes, morbidity will cut this bulge down, but the 2050 projection has the 85+ age group at 5.5% of the population...compared to the present 1.8%. Just think of the health care costs. data from http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idbpyr.html Also, think of the social implications of a country dominated by the aged. > It's good to see that Europe is now recognizing its Gastarbeiters (guest > workers, all those North Africans and Turks etc who've been living and > working in Germany for so long) and allowing them to become citizens. As >an Australian, it has always been something hard to grasp that someone born in >a country cannot take on citizenship of that country. Well, Australia is like the US in that it is a country of immigrants. Do you know what fraction of the population is non-European? I'm guessing that 5% are original Australians. > Apart from that one glitch, anyone can become an Australian citizen - so > long as you can get into the country that is. BTW, if anyone wants to >point out about the inhumane treatment currently meted out to asylum seekers by > the Australian government I, for one, can only drop my head and mumble a > heartfelt sorry. There are not separate tourist and long term visas? > Here we don't even have "Italian-Australian", "Baltic-Australian" or > "Asian-Australian" as designators. We're pretty much just Australians. >About 25% of Australia's population are foreign born and while food and customs > etc from overseas have changed all of us in some way each year, the kids > from overseas very quickly themselves become Australian. It's a two-way > street. > Most, if I understand, are from primarily English speaking countries. And, the small absolute numbers may have something to do with it. In the town where I grew up, there were historical French, Polish, and German Catholic churches within a mile of each other,where the sermons were given in French, Polish, and German, respectively. My mom, 2nd or 3rd generation native born, didn't speak English until she was 5. Also, we have a long border with Mexico, which has slowed mainstreaming. But, it certainly hasn't stopped it. > As for the reconquista and harbouring "a nation within a nation," surely > this is only a problem when rights are not granted to all. No, there is a risk when there are large numbers of folks who, by culture or looks, are different from the rest. I strongly disagree with Pat's take on the solution. The real solution is being more cosmopolitan...but that ain't Pat. With the large absolute numbers we have in the 'States, there is a risk of separate enclaves. >It is by passing on rights of citizenship, of voting, of education and health that you break > down the likelihood of creating these onion-like layers of nations. I think decrease, yes, but I don't think eliminate. The true test is intermarriage, I think. We certainly agree that its wrong to have long term residents with no hope of citizenship. > And > hasn't California, Texas and New Mexico always made something of their Latin > past? Where did Zorro and Chili and Taco Bell come from? Weren't there a > whole bunch of Spanish Texans fighting alongside Bowie and co at the Alamo? > We defiantly are picking up Hispanic culture. And, the new San Jacinto monument will feature the Hispanic Texans who fought for independence. As far as I can tell, Texas is doing better than California in assimilating Hispanic culture into a native Tex-Mex culture. > > Forty years ago, as Greeks, Russians etc started migrating in large >numbers it was the fear of the Slav Orthodox churches that was part of the >problem. Nowadays, little problem has occurred, and in fact the Blessing of the >Boats (a Greek Orthodox ceremony blessing fishing vessels) has become a bit of an > attraction, always making the news. > > In the 70s and 80s, of course, we were worried about the influx of Indo > Chinese - again largely without subsequent trauma. > > This time last year I was teaching some teenage refugees from Iraq, Sudan, > Burma, Bosnia, etc. Most were very recent arrivals, most were Moslem, the > girls tapped into Iraqi singer's and actor's web pages while the boys were > into soccer, cars and Tupac Shakur. In the main, they were already >becoming Australian, in that they had freedoms they and their parents were not used > to, were as chatty and cheeky as any other teenager, and liked pretty much > the same films and TV programs as my similarly aged kids. The things they > wanted for themselves were not too dissimilar from what 5th generation > Australian kids also want. Within ten years, I bet they'll nearly be as >much a skippy as me, and most will have an Australian accent. I think that there would be a great comparative patterns of immigration between the US and OZ dissertation for someone. Here, assimilation does happen, but it tends to take a generation or two. > > > > Ditto Australia, for the (generally) encompassing. Most of our population > growth is through migration, and has been since at least WW2. I can look > back fairly reliably on the last 30 years and see the changes. The next >50 or so years should also be pretty good for Australia because of our > cosmopolitan culture. > I think the US and OZ may have more similarities than differences...we may be more alike than either is like Europe. Population size would seem to be the biggest difference. Dan M.
