At 09:18 29-3-02 -0600, Dan Minette wrote:

> > That would depend on your definition of "Arab state". I would not consider
> > Israel to be an Arab state simply because part of the population is Arab.
>
>Ah, 20% of the population of Israel is now Arab.  If the Palestinians were
>to all return, it would be about 60^ Palestinian.

But who says they all *will* return to Israel? I can imagine that once 
there is a sovereign State of Palestine, many of those Palestinians will 
choose to live in Palestine instead of in Israel.


>The question is what would happen when the majority is Arab.  You honestly
>don't think that the Arabs would not, once they gain control of the
>government, work to achieve their stated end: the elimination of Israel?

Not necessarily. Actually, I think that Arabs and Jews living in the same 
country, the same towns and cities, the same neighbourhoods, the same 
streets, the same workplaces, is the only way for them to live in peace. 
Why? Because then, and only then, will they get to know each other better 
and understand each other better. If you keep them separate, they will 
never cease to hate each other.

You will never be able to end hatred by using violence. The only way to 
accomplish that is through mutual understanding. And mutual understanding 
can only be reached by living together.

Sure, there will always be some Arabs who will hate Jews simply because 
they are Jews, just as there will always be some Jews who hate Arabs simply 
because they are Arabs. But only through living together will both sides 
come to realise that the other side is not the Great Evil they thought they 
were. Once that has been accomplished, they can work together to fight 
those who are still intend on killing the other side.

Will that completely and forever eliminate any and all chance of terrorism? 
No. But it will greatly reduce that risk, which is the best thing that 
could happen. No country in the world has 100% safety and security; such a 
situation, however desirable it is, is utopian.


> >If the Arab population of Israel becomes a   majority and gets some control
>of the government, well, that >is democracy  at work. However, in a
>multi-party system, the Arabs would have to be a
> > *vast* majority of the population before they can get full control of the
> > government.
>
>Like, 51%?  What fraction of the Arabs would vote for Jewish candidates,
>especially when an Arab candidate would run on the platform of "a true
>Palestinian state."

That would only happen if all those Arabs share a black-and-white view of 
"Arabs good, Jews bad". But, as with any other people, they are not all 
black or all white; they come in various shades of grey, each shade with 
its own political party. There will without doubt be some Arabs who will 
want nothing less than the destruction of Israel; however, there will also 
be Arabs with a more moderate view, Arabs who want nothing else but to live 
in peace with their Jewish neighbours, and Arabs who really do not even 
care about politics at all as long as there is food on the table. And once 
they have been living together for a while and gotten to work on mutual 
understanding, the extremists will only be a small percentage of the total 
Arab population.

That is the beauty of a multi-party system: it is virtually impossible for 
any party to gain complete control.


Jeroen

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