At 12:31 26-10-2002 -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
Excuse me? Giorgis has, among other things, repeatedly refused to answer questions, has repeatedly refused to back his claims, and has repeatedly turned to personal attacks to try and silence people who disagree with him. In my book, such behaviour does not qualify as merely "small human errors, errors in judgement, and general silliness". To me, it definitely qualifies as disruptive behaviour.> That would mean that I am one of very few people on this list who have > a *functioning* short-term memory...No...........It means that most people on this list forgive small human errors, errors of judgement, and general silliness, while they take notice of intentional attempts to disrupt the list and/or force people to have a particular opinion.
Actually, I have noticed, and I must say I find it quite disturbing that people are a lot more eager to criticise the person who points out misbehaviour, than criticising the person who is displaying that misbehaviour.Maybe you havent noticed but you are talking about John and everyone else is talking about you.
Guess I will just have to shut up then, and accept that I was, am, and probably always will be, the only person on this list who realises that Giorgis' gross misbehaviour is undesirable behaviour and disruptive to this list.Conversations like this do not work well.
I do not want him to leave the list, I want him to get off his high horse and become a civilised, mature person with whom one can have a discussion *without* seeing questions deliberately remaining unanswered, *without* claims deliberately remaining unproven, and *without* running the risk of becoming yet another target for his personal attacks.> >Your childish and churlish behavior is far worse than anything you > >have accused John of. > > So, criticising someone for is misbehaviour is worse than the > misbehaviour itself? Not at all. But the incessant ranting about it is worse. Early on you might have had some justification, but now it looks like a bad habit or an addiction. It appears you want to modify his behavior into leaving the list.
True, but that does not mean I cannot point it out when others misbehave, and that I cannot try to get those others to improve their behaviour.Let me repeat this: You can only control your own behavior, and it is the only behavior you are responsible for.
I would love to, but unfortunately the various listowners this list has had (except me) do not seem to recognise Giorgis's behaviour as being disruptive misbehaviour.Let the listowners handle misbehaviors.
What is threatening about that? I do not see anything in my statement that could be considered a threat. Really, all I am saying is that Giorgis is the cause of all this list disruption, and therefore you will have to convince him to improve his behaviour in such a way that such disruption will not reoccur.> The frequence of my criticism happens to equal the frequency with which > Giorgis shows his usual questionable behaviour. So, essentially, if you > want things to improve you will have to get him to shape up. That sounds distinctly like a threat!
There is also a limit to my tolerance, but apparently I am not supposed to speak up when someone crosses that line. :-(I like you Jeroen, but there is a limit to tolerance.
You know, I have been thinking the exact same thing about a certain other member of this list -- his initials are JDG.You bring shame upon this list.
Then what impression *should* I have gotten from his repeated refusals to answer questions and back his claims? What impression *should* I have gotten from his personal attacks against various listmembers over the years? Can you answer those questions for me?> What poor judgement? Have I been having the wrong impressions about > Giorgis? I think so.
Then what are the "good intentions" behind refusing to answer questions and refusing to back claims? What are the "good intentions" behind launching personal attacks against other listmembers? Can you answer those questions for me?It seems to me that you take these things far too personally. I think that both you and John have good intentions,
Jeroen "How long till Hell freezes over?" van Baardwijk
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