From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Twenty (or so) Questions, was Re: Plonkworthy? Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:40:41 -0500
At 10:32 AM 6/11/03 -0400, Jon Gabriel wrote:From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Twenty (or so) Questions, was Re: Plonkworthy? Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:04:49 -0500
At 12:25 AM 6/10/03 -0400, Erik Reuter asked:
<lots of snippage throughout>
Is there more than one God? What happens when two omnipotent Gods want two different things?
If there is more than one being who holds the office of "God", why wouldn't they cooperate rather than compete?
IMO, your answer doesn't really answer the question though. If the God of the Assyrians says that every Babylonian should be killed, and the God of the Babylonians says every Assyrian should be killed, who's right? It's all well and good to say "why wouldn't they cooperate", but that doesn't always happen. Tonight, on WWF Smackdown....
My point is that there is no separate "God of the Assyrians" and "God of the Babylonians," therefore that question is meaningless.
OK, well, you snipped my Cow Paradox question, so I'm re-pasting it:
~~~~~
To take it one step further, here's a good example with regards to food. Let's call it the Cow Paradox. > Hindus say their God(s) say that cows are sacred and should never be eaten. Jews say their God say that cows are not sacred and can be eaten at any time except on fast days as long as they are killed in a specified manner. Catholics believe that their God says that cows can be eaten any time except Lent, no matter how they are killed.
Which God is correct, and which are smoking cow patties? These are contradictory statements. They cannot be waved away with the comment 'they're all correct' because that's an illogical conclusion based on the available evidence. Either cows are sacred or they are not.
~~~~~
You didn't answer this question, and I don't understand how it's 'meaningless.' How is it possible for three omnipotent Gods to give conflicting answers? Which one is correct and why? If you'd prefer (as you seem to) to translate this as *one* God giving multiple conflicting messages, then which message is correct and why? The messages contradict each other, so how do you decide which one is right or wrong?
I'm not attempting to bust your balls here... I'm just trying to understand your thinking.
Here are some other possibilities to consider:
(1) The practices you mentioned, presuming they are commandments from God, were filtered through men. God is perfect, but men are imperfect, so perhaps something was garbled along the way?
(2) God gives different instructions to different persons/groups of persons at different times. Frex, in the OT He commanded all male Jews to be circumcised, but that is not a requirement for Christians, since Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses.
Which part(s) of the Bible are fundamental teachings of God and which (if any) are just stories?
I suspect that there are some parts which qualify as both, as Jesus often used parables to teach important truths when He was preaching while He was here in mortality.
So are the "Bible Literalists", the Baptist sects of Christianity, wrong in your opinion?
Given that there are passages in the KJV which contradict other passages in the KJV, not to mention portions of one version of the Bible which do not agree with another version, and that "Bible Literalists" believe that when Genesis says that the Earth was created in six days that means six days of twenty-four hours each, each hour consisting of 3600 seconds, and each second is the time that elapses during 9,192,631,770 (9.192631770 x 10^9) cycles of the radiation produced by the transition between two levels of the cesium 133 atom, or, alternatively, the time required for an electromagnetic field to propagate 299,792,458 meters (2.99792458 x 10^8 m) through a vacuum,
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [...] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. THUS the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day, when the light had travelled 155,412,410,227,200 meters from its point of origin, God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." (Genesis 1:3, 31-2:2, The Authorized King James for Creation Scientists Version)
which either contradicts the scientific evidence or requires ridiculous gyrations to attempt to make it fit, yes, they are wrong. (IMO.)
So wait a minute. If it is all subject to interpretation then how do we know what's real? (I sense a pending conversation about existentialism.)
See my answer to Erik.
Can you explain why a survey published in the September 1999 issue of Scientific American found that 90% of Americans believe in a personal god and life after death, but only 40% of scientists (people with at least a B.S. degree in a scientific field) believe in these phenomena?
Nope. Certainly not without the survey in front of me to study its methodology. A lot of the scientists I know personally belong to the 40% group, but of course that could be selection bias.
A while back I remember reading a story about a website where scientists who believe in God and spirituality could connect and voice their views without fear of being ostracized by the scientific community. If it's still around, when I get more time, I'll post it to the list.
Thank you, but I've never found any problem with voicing my views. If I get ostracized, it is more usually by fundamentalist Christians/Bible literalists who disagree with my religious views.
OK, but I may post anyway, cuz it wasn't for you, per se. I would post it because I'd think it might add to our conversation. :)
And seriously, I'd be interested in seeing it.
-- Ronn! :)
God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam… God bless America! My home, sweet home.
-- Irving Berlin (1888-1989)
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