At 07:31 2003-06-23 -0700, Nick wrote:> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Reggie Bautista
...
> rob wrote: > >Mary and the other saints are a lot like union stewards. They can get > >things > >done for you. <G> > >It's quite a different meme than the ones that are found in most > protestant > >sects, but it has been with the catholic church long before the > protestant > >reformation. I would think that it has always been easy to misunderstand > >and > >was likely one of the contributing factors that led to the reformation. > > And unfortunately, I think this is also a concept that is > mis-understood by > many Catholics, as well, which only leads to further confusion.
The Reformation was much more about the inverse -- living people asking the Pope to intervene on the part of the dead. That was the primary abuse that got Luther going. The indulgence sellers were invoking the voices of the dead, begging their living relatives to pay Rome to get them into heaven.
Nick
This is still going on, in a manner of speaking. One may purchase "masses" for deceased loved ones. It is customary to do so at the anniversary of the death. This has become a way for churches and religious orders to raise money.
Imagine the monks of St-Benoît praying for your grandparents in gregorian chants and you may find that this is not so evil after all, especially when you know that the monks in question have sworn an oath of poverty.
Is there a belief, either official or unofficial, that they cannot get into heaven without that process?
-- Ronn! :)
God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam… God bless America! My home, sweet home.
-- Irving Berlin (1888-1989)
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