On 9 Nov 2003 at 9:11, Gautam Mukunda wrote: > Second, _the support is already there_. People in > Muslim countries all over the world celebrated on > September 11th. I've seen the videotape, and so have > most other people. Opinion polls suggest that in much > of the Islamic world, Osama Bin Laden is a popular and > respected figure.
Stats? I think you'll find, as well, that certain of the say BBC reporting was hardly unbiased. A lot of the Palestians ran for shelter on 9/11, because they were *afraid* of what the Terrorists might of brought down on them. > the vilest ends (we're not, after all talking about > the ANC here, which used terrorist tactics for > fundamentally just ends. We're talking about people Bullshit. There is NO excuse for Terrorism. None. I don't buy "One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter). Either the people use legitmate tactics, or they do not. > again. If Catholic terrorists were killing protestant > children and the Vatican didn't condemn them, I would > have a big problem with that. But the Vatican _did_ > condemn the IRA. By contrast, over and over again > prominent Muslim clerics consistently excuse and > promote even viler terorrism against civilians all the You compare a religion with a centralist authority for one without. > As long as the moderate majority of the Muslim world > that we keep hearing about refuses to turn against the > extremists, then maybe they _aren't_ repulsed by the > massacre of infants. There aren't many signs that > they are. So they don't have any grounds for > resentment. Again, people outside keep acting as They ARE moderate. They're not the ones screaming on your TV. Usually, their statements are discarded as "not newsworth". I've seen THAT happen several times...often the statements are only ever published on the web. > societies, and then the rest of the world. The way > the war ends depends upon the _choice_ of the rest of > the Muslim world - whether it will decisively turn > against the terrorist groups, or continue to turn a > blind eye to their sins. No, It depends on us. The "Muslem World" is a fractured, unstable entity. What we need to do is to chop out the bits which wil not reform, while breaking down the rest of it's unity with economic incentives for steps in the right direction. And I think you'll find that moderate muslems WILL sign onto that approach. > the end, we win. Period. But it can end happily for > the Muslim world - with Muslim countries free, > democratic, and wealthy. Or it can end unhappily - So democracy is a prerequisite, for you, of "winning"? What if the people don't WANT democracy? I'd point out that for example Jordan is NOT a democracy, and yet it's policy towards Israel is friendly, and it is hostile to terrorists (admitedly, yes, they only threw out a lot of them after they tried to take over, but that's history). > To the people being attacked in their name. I want > them to prove that they _do not_ want to convert the > entire world to Islam by force, that they reject those Them? The Islamic goverments? They don't. It's preachers within their borders which are. And I think you'll find that you just called on America and it's allies to convert the world to democracy. Exactly the same kind of rallying call behind a religion or ideology. > rhetorically (no more claims that 9/11 was a Jewish > conspiracy), rejecting them financially (no more Oho. THAT'S rich, considering the number of Holocaust deniers and tin- foil-hat "The Jews are out to take over the world" theorists in America. > Our responsibility is to stop being enablers. Since > September 11th of 2001, the US and its allies have > taken up that responsibility. It's time for the rest > of the world to do the same. 9/11 is not a turning point in the way a lot of people seem to think it is. The difference is purely in perception. Yes, you Americans thought you could fund terrorists for decades and not have it rebound. Well, us Brits learned that lesson long ago, and the IRA made sure we never thought we were immune. I cannot and will not forgive Gulf War 1 for not rolling into Bagdad. And no, I DON'T care what the political fallout would of been. Because this President didn't care about it this time round, after so many deaths Sadaam caused between the wars. THis is not about them. This is about us. We cannot and should not force our ideology onto a people unwilling to accept it. If we can bring them to accept it, fine, but if they will not we must accept that. That is not to say that we must neglect legitmate security concerns, but that we must accept they are different. Democracy is no banner of sweetness and light. I have my own thoughs on democracy, and I believe America is unstable and will become a lot moreso as time passes. Andy Dawn Falcon _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
