On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:39:15 -0500, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Denton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: Request for Proposals <snip> > > Panama is better, the family of a former dictator still runs the > > country but they hold elections. > > > > I haven't noticed any changes toward right dictatorships under Bush 1 > > and Bush 2 except for turning against the former US supported > > creations that went too far - Noriega and Saddam. > > Why don't the data convince you? Are you arguing that its coincidence that > there are far fewer military dictatorships in Latin America now than before > the Cold War ended? Right now, Haiti is the one I can think of....which is > what you cover below...which I can get to.
We are talking about Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2. I see no indication that the Bush's were interested in overturning dictatorships except for Panama and Iraq. The rise of democratic governments worldwide has been seen as a consequence of fewer conflicts, the rise of the information age, the increasing scrutiny of bank accounts, and the refusal of other countries to offer safe havens. Why do you think increasing American military power has anything to do with the decline of Latin American dictatorships? > I won't argue with your claim about Noriaga, but I don't see the > justification for your claim about Hussein. Andrew Paul made the same > claim, and I responded as follows: > > "I would very much appreciate help in understanding how the US set up the > Bathe party...or how we ensured Hussein rose in it." > > I didn't see an answer from him on this. If you could enlighten me on > this, > Always glad to help. Saddam made a name for himself in 1959, when he led a six-man team to assassinate Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem. Kassem had come to power the year before, leading a coup against the puppet rulers of Iraq put in place by the British colonialists. The murder plot failed, and Saddam fled to Egypt, where he reportedly made contact with the CIA and helped Washington's attempts to get involved in Iraq. Kassem's 1958 coup put an end to a British-backed dictatorship. At first, the U.S. government supported Kassem until he started buying arms from the USSR -- and threatening to invade the small oil kingdom of Kuwait, sound familiar?. The U.S. aligned itself with Kassem's opponents, including the Baath Party. The CIA set up a command center in Kuwait to direct the opposition. In 1963, the conspirators toppled Kassem--who was machine-gunned to death and his bullet-riddled body displayed on Iraqi television. "Almost certainly a gain for our side," Robert Komer, a National Security Council aide, wrote to President John F. Kennedy. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the CIA, the Baathists massacred an estimated 5,000 people--jailing and torturing thousands more. Five years later, the U.S. reportedly backed yet another coup that brought Gen. Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr to power--along with al-Bakr's right-hand man, Saddam Hussein. > > Bush 2 has even brought back all the old 'cold warriors' that Bush 1 > > ignored and has put heavy pressure, including removing one, against > > the Americas governments not supportive enough of GOP positions. > > >From what I read, Aristide was corrupt, lost popular support at home, and > the US refused to use its military to support him. > > > The Organization of American States is not happy with Bush 2: > > That's fair enough. I'm not happy with Bush 2, but that doesn't undo my > claim. > > > (AP) - Despite objections from the United States and Haiti, the > > Organization of American States opened the way for an investigation > > into the ouster of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. > > > > The OAS General Assembly also called for elections in Haiti as soon as > > possible. But the debate over a probe into the coup went for hours > > until the body on Tuesday night finally approved a resolution calling > > Aristide's ouster unconstitutional and allowing an assessment of what > > occurred. > > Which seems quite reasonable. I'm not arguing that the US was flawless in > this; but I can sympathize with the unwillingness to use US troops to stop > the rebels. > > > Aristide accuses the United States of forcing him from office - a > > charge Washington denies. A U.S.-supplied jet flew Aristide to the > > Central African Republic on Feb. 29 as [- US armed] rebels advanced on > > the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince, and he is now in asylum in > > South Africa after spending several weeks in Jamaica. > > Is there any evidence that the US actually supported the coup instead of > simply refusing to use its troops to fight it? With all due respect, > unsubstantiated claims by Aristide is not really evidence. > > Dan M. Common knowledge is that Aristide's opponents were financed, armed and supported by the CIA. The rebels had a long history of extensive CIA connections. Their arms were current U.S. made and evidence they were shipped from Florida. Elements of the US had been very unhappy that their financed opponent to Aristide had been able to only get about 14% of the vote in the last election. Once the right administration was in power the CIA would move. Let me see what I wrote about it: EVIDENCE OF U.S.- HAITIAN REBEL CONNECTIONS Despite the rebels' sordid history, the FRAPH and its leaders have had troubling connections to the American military and intelligence services. For instance, Human Rights Watch notes that "FRAPH reportedly was founded with CIA assistance and 'Toto' Constant, its director, has repeatedly stated that he received regular CIA payments." This was corroborated by Knight Ridder which reported that Constant acknowledged he was on the CIA payroll. The current rebel leader, Guy Philippe, who is "infamous for human rights abuses," was trained by the U.S. military. And the NYT reports the rebels' "assault weapons and crisp camouflage uniforms suggest they have outside support." The Haitian Army and its National Intelligence Service, which was disbanded after Aristide returned to power but whose remnants are part of the rebellion, were agencies "created and financed by the C.I.A. that committed acts of terror and trafficked in cocaine." (For more, see Human Rights Watch's new report on the history of some of the rebel leaders.) - Progress Report Gary Denton Permalink on 3/1/2004 LATER: Christian Science Monitor - There are several tragedies in this surrealistic episode. The first is the apparent incapacity of the US to speak honestly about such matters as toppling governments. Instead, it brushes aside crucial questions: Did the US summarily deny military protection to Aristide? Did the US supply weapons to the rebels, who showed up in Haiti last month with sophisticated equipment that last year reportedly had been taken by the US military to the Dominican Republic, next door to Haiti? Why did the US abandon the call of European and Caribbean leaders for a political compromise, a compromise that Aristide had already accepted? Most important, did the US bankroll a coup in Haiti, a scenario that, based on the evidence, seems likely? Only someone ignorant of American history and of the administrations of the elder and younger George Bushes would dismiss these questions. The US has repeatedly sponsored coups and uprisings in Haiti and in neighboring Caribbean countries. The most recent previous episode in Haiti came in 1991, during the first Bush administration, when thugs on the CIA payroll were among the leaders of paramilitary groups that toppled Aristide after his 1990 election. Some of the players in the current round are familiar from the previous Bush administration. Also key is US Assistant Secretary of State Roger Noriega - a longtime Aristide-basher - widely thought to have been central to the departure of Aristide. He'll find it much harder to engineer the departure of gun-toting rebels. In 1991, when Congressional Black Caucus members demanded an investigation into the US role in Aristide's overthrow, the first Bush administration laughed them off, just as the administration is doing today in facing new queries from caucus members. Indeed, those questioning the administration about Haiti are being smeared as naive and unpatriotic ...Some Haitian Rebel Guns Smuggled From South Florida Roger Noriega behind Aristide Ouster? The departure of Haiti's Jean-Bertrand Aristide is a victory for a Bush administration hard-liner who has been long dedicated to Aristide's ouster, U.S. foreign policy analysts say. That official is Roger Noriega, assistant U.S. secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, whose influence over U.S. policy toward Haiti has increased during the past decade as he climbed the diplomatic ladder in Washington. "Roger Noriega has been dedicated to ousting Aristide for many, many years, and now he's in a singularly powerful position to accomplish it," Robert White, a former U.S. ambassador to El Salvador and Paraguay, said last week. Why was Aristide forced from power? "Believe it or not, if a vote was taken now, Aristide would get 85 percent." Thanks to Flagrancy to Reason. How the US Press Missed the Story "The fact that the group in charge of Haiti policy today in the State Department has been literally gunning for Aristide since before his initial election as a champion of democracy in 1990 has been left all but unmentioned by the US press." The modus operandi of Noriega and company is unmistakeable: fund an opposition, report every clash as repression against the population, arm pliable thugs and mercenaries in exile, embargo the government, precipitate acute crisis, play up the discontent of a hungry population, and then happily leave it to internationalist liberals to lead the charge for military intervention on humanitarian grounds. Whiskey Bar on the story. I doubt whether the media cares enough about Haiti -- or about a couple of old fascists like Roger Noriega and Otto Reich -- to make a honest-to-God scandal out of what increasingly looks like a old-fashioned, U.S.-sponsored coup d'etat, albeit this time with French and Canadian participation. I keep having to add to the Haiti posts. Liberal Oasis on four questions not answered and more Powell betrayals. Particularly interesting is the Black Commentator piece from last April, which may have foreshadowed today's events: A few select members of [Aristide's] Lavalas party recently described âwhat they view as the first phase of Washington's scheme for Haiti. They defined its three major concurrent objectives as: 1) to create an opposition force capable of seizing power, 2) demonize Aristide and Lavalas within and without Haiti and, 3) separate the base of Lavalas from the leadership. One good post among many on Haiti at Body and Soul. The best way to get to all my links on Hiati is: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:+elemming2.blogspot.com+Haiti&num=50&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&filter=0 Those don't mention the National Endowment for Democracy, which had taken over some former CIA duties, by throwing money at opposition parties and organizations to governments we oppose. They don't fund, or aren't supposed to fund, armed rebels but supply the PR money and organization and work to destabilize by legal groups. Now the one's I pulled and posted above from my posts I think are pretty common knowledge but the following is truly frightening: Seven Congressmen Are Zombies! Weekly World News - At least seven U.S. congressmen are boot-licking zombies controlled by Haiti's supersecret AIH intelligence agency, but here's the clincher: Nobody can figure out who they are because the living dead -- with their shuffling gait, wrinkled skin and glassy stares -- are indistinguishable from all the senior-citizen politicians on Capitol Hill. So says the FBI in a frightening internal report that suggests the House of Representatives "could become a nest of zombies within the next 10 years . . . and the American public would be none the wiser." "By definition, zombies have limited mental faculties, no emotion, no free will, and they are only able to function at the behest of voodoo priests who control their every move. Gary Denton - Who would know? Maru #1 on google for liberal news digest
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