> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Charlie Bell > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 3:53 PM > To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion > Subject: Re: Science and Ideals. > > > On 03/09/2008, at 1:07 AM, Dan M wrote: > > >> > >> I accept a variant of the "golden rule", I just don't accept that > >> it's > >> anything other than a personal and social contract. > >> > > > > OK, so just to be clear, you think that no social or personal > > contract is > > actually better than any other. > > Oh for fuck's sake. Where have I EVER said THAT?
OK, it seemed to logically follow, because I didn't expect an appeal to infinite regression as a response. > Of course some are better than others. But what actually is better > depends on what one is trying to achieve. If we're trying to achieve > the best outcomes in terms of personal freedoms and responsibilities, > then some ways of living are demonstrably better than others. OK, we've just moved a step downwards (not in a derogatory sense, but in, say, the sense of an excavation) in assumptions. There is no doubt that if we are trying to achieve X, then we can demonstrate that some ways of reaching X are better than others. But, different people want to achieve different things; different cultures had different goals. Which desires are good, and which are not good? What objective framework exists for measuring these goals? And if it exists, where does it come from? And, what about the variety of goals, both individual and communal, that existed in the past and now exist. Are any of them better than the others? If so, where's the yardstick for measuring them? Now, you can add another layer to this argument, and it may very well be turtles all the way down. But, that's what I've seen you do.. Ethical things are things that help us meet this good goal. That doesn't sound so bad...except it doesn't answer the question, it just moves it form what is ethical to what are good goals. Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
