Jon said: >depends on what kind of welfare state. sweden's model is >preferable to england, both economies have access to north >sea oil. i don't believe in fostering dependency, or enabling >people "working the system" to supplement their "under the table" >income with the "dole". i do believe the state should assist >people with disabilities to become self sufficient, and provide >services like health care, free education and vocational training, etc. >actually i think we need to come up with new models of enlightened >democratic socialism that are productive and creative, rather than >destructive to the environment. The ideas that the welfare state has a model separate from capitalist free markets is very strange notion. In fact capitalist monopolies are very Instrumental in creating the welfare state. This can be seen in the basic Economic 101 demand models: http://www.econ.umn.edu/~walrath/LargeLect1101Sp08/Econ1101SuppNotesMonopoly.pdf The high price moguls who received millions to burn surplus and pay below scale wages [real wage based on a value added concept] are basic culprits in the analysis of your “self sufficient.” How can anyone actually discuss a model of democratic socialism without examination of misplaced value systems where people accept theft of services as a form of enlightenment. I the enlighten society a thief can’t pass good title. One golden parachute of $15 million represent about 1,000 salaries at the poverty level of $15,000. Note this slightly before the minimum wage. A note from PV -------------- Original message from Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: --------------
> i just came across this in my spam folder, claes... > > > socialism is not without flaws. there is > > > dissension among socialists, and most > > would condemn my preference for a mixed > > > economy. i recognize the importance of > > individual incentives, and not against all > > private enterprise by any means, nor am i > > > in favor of a welfare state. > > > What is the "European style socialism" that > > you prefer, if you are not in favor of a > > welfare state? Or perhaps we mean different > > things with this term? > > /c > depends on what kind of welfare state. sweden's model is preferable to > england, both economies have access to north sea oil. i don't believe in > fostering dependency, or enabling people "working the system" to supplement > their "under > the table" income with the "dole". > i do believe the state should assist people with disabilities to become self > sufficient, and provide services like health care, free education and > vocational > training, etc. > > actually i think we need to come up with new models of enlightened democratic > socialism that are productive and creative, rather than destructive to the > environment. > jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
