What is the price of admission? > On Mar 22, 2021, at 7:37 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > Have a read in an ARRL Antenna Handbook about antenna measurements, test site > set up, absolute gain and pattern measurements. Might shed some light on > your project. > Also near field versus far field distances and characteristics. > > That forum’s presentations are on demand online until April 15th. Working > my way thru. I’ve only seen a few so far. > RH > > > On Mar 22, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Mark Brantana via BVARC <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> FSD = Field Strength Drone >> >> We have had some fun discussions about this idea. I wish I could have >> visited the forum held recently, but I had to miss it. I understand someone >> had someone talked about a related topic, and I have looked at the article >> Jeff kindly sent me. I hope I did not miss anything else, but I have tried >> to read and follow up on all the comments. This educational jaunt has given >> me some help in better understanding field strength meters. >> >> Antenna Orientation: I was especially struck by one very old and classic >> demo showing the response of a receiver in a non-aligned configuration with >> the antenna orientation. For example, a horizontal receiving antenna and a >> vertical transmitting antenna, or vice versa. This demo showed clearly that >> the antenna needs to be properly oriented, and that a 90 degree >> disorientation gave no response at all. So, an FSD would have to have 360 >> response in order that the orientation does not introduce falsely attenuated >> response simply due to the antenna orientation. It might look something like >> a Van der Graff ball somehow; and possibly this is why it the dangling >> antenna looks like a ball in Jeff’s reference. >> >> Antenna Length: Then, there is the question; how big does it need to be. >> Since a field strength indication is really a relative reading, this may not >> be an issue. It does introduce a complication in that the field strength >> meter would need to be tightly tuned to a testing frequency, even if the >> antenna is really inefficient. Without tuning, the field strength antenna >> will very strongly tend toward resonation on shorter wavelengths, and thus >> provide false readings. >> >> In other words, the little wire coming off of the field strength meter we >> may have, but have never used, may qualitative only and not quantitative, >> since the reading will depend on the orientation and length of its antenna. >> An antenna for the Field Strength Drone would have additional requirements >> to satisfy the measurement requirements. It is not going to be a matter of >> just flying a field strength meter through the field. >> >> Food for thought. Opinions? >> >> Mark >> N5PRD >> >> >>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 5:36 PM, Mark Brantana <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for all the great comments. The real question at this time is, does >>> anyone have an interest in working with me on this project? It is a purely >>> ham project and we get paid in bragging rights. >>> Mark >>> N5PRD >>> >>>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 5:17 PM, Mark Brantana <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Rick, >>>> >>>> Agreed. And it is beginning to look like there is a need to build and test >>>> such a thing to really learn it’s value. For instance, I never knew how >>>> useful an my nanoVNA would be until I bought one. Sure, I could do an SWR >>>> study the old way, but the new widget enables me to do a lot more, faster >>>> and easier. >>>> >>>> I just threw this question out this morning for discussion, and got my >>>> money’s worth from everyone. It was academic at that time, but now I am >>>> wondering all the more why there isn’t some video on YouTube showing some >>>> ham who has built such a device. It seems like this is something wanting >>>> to be made, at least for ham use. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Gary Sitton via BVARC <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Rick: >>>>> >>>>> I really agree especially since I've looked into the drone motor >>>>> controllers. >>>>> They typically emit so much onboard and radiated hash that special by-pass >>>>> precautions are taken with some of the onboard sensors, e.g. >>>>> accelerometers >>>>> for orientation sensing. I disagree that modelling software is adequate >>>>> for >>>>> the typical antenna environment, e.g. antennas below a wavelength. Also >>>>> conformation of directional antenna's front-to-back and forward gain for >>>>> optimization purposes would be nice if even perhaps extravagant. >>>>> >>>>> 73, Gary K5AMH >>>>> >>>>> PS: Most drone controllers use the STM ARM processors for which there >>>>> is free open source drone software: https://betaflight.com/ >>>>> <https://betaflight.com/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/10/2021 2:34 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC wrote: >>>>>> Comment: Is an FSD applicable? >>>>>> >>>>>> Although an FSD would provide a close-in Far Field pattern of an antenna >>>>>> antenna installation, which is very cool indeed. Is it really necessary >>>>>> in the world of Ham Radio? >>>>>> >>>>>> We already have antenna modeling software based on the NEC which is >>>>>> quite accurate, depending on the set up parameters provided, of course. >>>>>> That model analysis provides us with a pattern and a fair amount of >>>>>> operational information. >>>>>> >>>>>> But what do we (I) really want? I want to know what and how my antenna >>>>>> is performing in the real world outside of my QTH. Is it getting to >>>>>> Europe or VK? When is the best time and frequency to get to Japan or >>>>>> South Africa? Questions like this are not to be answered by a FSD. >>>>>> >>>>>> What we really need is a world wide system to detect our signals >>>>>> wherever they may occur. So let's start thinking of that. We just need >>>>>> a few hams on every continent to participate........Wait! Not so >>>>>> fast.......there is already a system that does this. WSPR and it is >>>>>> available from a local amateur radio dealer -- SOTA Beams >>>>>> https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/wsprlite-classic >>>>>> <https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/wsprlite-classic>. QST Dec 2018 even >>>>>> has a review of this system. >>>>>> https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/content/QSTREVIEW.pdf >>>>>> <https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/content/QSTREVIEW.pdf> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now look, I am not poo pooing the FSD concept , ideas, discussion, etc. >>>>>> Very cool indeed to get a group of folks excited and discussing antenna >>>>>> stuff. Woo Hoo! I'm all for it, being the antenna phreak that I am. >>>>>> I'm just taking a step back and seeing if it is necessary, practical or >>>>>> even applicable for Hams. Plus, maybe some don't know about WSPR. >>>>>> >>>>>> 73...Rick -- W5RH >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >>>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:57 PM Jeffery MacMillian via BVARC >>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> Here is a good paper on this very topic..... >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.narda-sts.com/en/selective-emf/srm-3006-field-strength-analyzer/eID/pd/pdce/9063/pdfr/9500/ >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.narda-sts.com/en/selective-emf/srm-3006-field-strength-analyzer/eID/pd/pdce/9063/pdfr/9500/> >>>>>> >>>>>> have Fun, >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> KC5TT >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:31 PM Tom Watson via BVARC <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> Brilliant! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 12:22 AM Mark Brantana via BVARC <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> OK, what is an FSD? It is a Field Strength Drone. It’s an idea I am sure >>>>>> others have had, and I don’t expect to get around to designing or >>>>>> patenting such a thing. But inventions are often just the merging of new >>>>>> technologies, and this is not much different. I don’t see any YouTubes >>>>>> about this or any other reference, so here’s the idea: >>>>>> >>>>>> With all the capabilities of little drones I wonder if anyone has >>>>>> designed one which can carry a field strength meter and fly a grid >>>>>> around an antenna to evaluate antenna performance. The guts of my little >>>>>> Radio Shack FSM would have weighed way less than an ounce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ideally, the field strength meter could communicate to the base through >>>>>> the drone transmitter, reducing weight. Software at the base could link >>>>>> the drone 3D location data with the FS reading. The drone would have to >>>>>> wait at test locations for the operator to transmit, and ideally would >>>>>> move to the next location. Finally, the software might be able to link >>>>>> with existing simulation software for comparison with theory and allow >>>>>> for simulation model improvement. This looks like it would take a small >>>>>> team to develop. >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds like it would have many uses besides antenna evaluation, >>>>>> like RFI evaluation. >>>>>> >>>>>> What about it? Has anyone done this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> N5PRD >>>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>>>> >>>>>> BVARC mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>>>> <http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org> >>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>>>> >>>>>> BVARC mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>>>> <http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org> >>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>>>> >>>>>> BVARC mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>>>> <http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org> >>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Rick Hiller >>>>>> e-mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> Cell: 832-474-3713 >>>>>> Physical: 9031 Troulon Drive >>>>>> Houston, TX 77036 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>>>> >>>>>> BVARC mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>>>> <http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org> >>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gary Sitton, K5AMH >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> SDR/DSP Consultant, >>>>> "Have FFTs, Will Travel." >>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>>> >>>>> BVARC mailing list >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>>> <http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org> >>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>>> >>> >> >> ________________________________________________ >> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >> >> BVARC mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >> <http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org> >> Publicly available archives are available here: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > ________________________________________________ > Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club > > BVARC mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org > Publicly available archives are available here: > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
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