For the QSO TodaY Expo, the login is the email address that you used when you 
bought your ticket.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 22, 2021, at 9:17 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I paid $10 months ago, but for the on demand stuff I do not know.   The BVARC 
> NEWS BLAST from yesterday has info on how to get to the site so the sign in 
> might tell you.
> 
> RH
> 
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 8:45 PM Mark Brantana via BVARC <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
>> What is the price of admission?
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2021, at 7:37 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mark,
>>> Have a read in an ARRL Antenna Handbook about antenna measurements, test 
>>> site set up, absolute gain and pattern measurements.   Might shed some 
>>> light on your project.
>>> Also near field versus far field distances and characteristics.
>>> 
>>> That forum’s presentations are on demand online until April 15th.   Working 
>>> my way thru.  I’ve only seen a few so far.
>>> RH
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Mark Brantana via BVARC <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> FSD = Field Strength Drone
>>>> 
>>>> We have had some fun discussions about this idea. I wish I could have 
>>>> visited the forum held recently, but I had to miss it. I understand 
>>>> someone had someone talked about a related topic, and I have looked at the 
>>>> article Jeff kindly sent me. I hope I did not miss anything else, but I 
>>>> have tried to read and follow up on all the comments. This educational 
>>>> jaunt has given me some help in better understanding field strength meters.
>>>> 
>>>> Antenna Orientation: I was especially struck by one very old and classic 
>>>> demo showing the response of a receiver in a non-aligned configuration 
>>>> with the antenna orientation. For example, a horizontal receiving antenna 
>>>> and a vertical transmitting antenna, or vice versa. This demo showed 
>>>> clearly that the antenna needs to be properly oriented, and that a 90 
>>>> degree disorientation gave no response at all. So, an FSD would have to 
>>>> have 360 response in order that the orientation does not introduce falsely 
>>>> attenuated response simply due to the antenna orientation. It might look 
>>>> something like a Van der Graff ball somehow; and possibly this is why it 
>>>> the dangling antenna looks like a ball in Jeff’s reference.
>>>> 
>>>> Antenna Length: Then, there is the question; how big does it need to be. 
>>>> Since a field strength indication is really a relative reading, this may 
>>>> not be an issue. It does introduce a complication in that the field 
>>>> strength meter would need to be tightly tuned to a testing frequency, even 
>>>> if the antenna is really inefficient. Without tuning, the field strength 
>>>> antenna will very strongly tend toward resonation on shorter wavelengths, 
>>>> and thus provide false readings.
>>>> 
>>>> In other words, the little wire coming off of the field strength meter we 
>>>> may have, but have never used, may qualitative only and not quantitative, 
>>>> since the reading will depend on the orientation and length of its 
>>>> antenna. An antenna for the Field Strength Drone would have additional 
>>>> requirements to satisfy the measurement requirements. It is not going to 
>>>> be a matter of just flying a field strength meter through the field.
>>>> 
>>>> Food for thought. Opinions?
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> N5PRD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 5:36 PM, Mark Brantana <[email protected]> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for all the great comments. The real question at this time is, 
>>>>> does anyone have an interest in working with me on this project? It is a 
>>>>> purely ham project and we get paid in bragging rights.
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> N5PRD
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 5:17 PM, Mark Brantana <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Agreed. And it is beginning to look like there is a need to build and 
>>>>>> test such a thing to really learn it’s value. For instance, I never knew 
>>>>>> how useful an my nanoVNA would be until I bought one. Sure, I could do 
>>>>>> an SWR study the old way, but the new widget enables me to do a lot 
>>>>>> more, faster and easier. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just threw this question out this morning for discussion, and got my 
>>>>>> money’s worth from everyone. It was academic at that time, but now I am 
>>>>>> wondering all the more why there isn’t some video on YouTube showing 
>>>>>> some ham who has built such a device. It seems like this is something 
>>>>>> wanting to be made, at least for ham use.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Gary Sitton via BVARC <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rick:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    I really agree especially since I've looked into the drone motor 
>>>>>>> controllers.
>>>>>>> They typically emit so much onboard and radiated hash that special 
>>>>>>> by-pass
>>>>>>> precautions are taken with some of the onboard sensors, e.g. 
>>>>>>> accelerometers
>>>>>>> for orientation sensing.  I disagree that modelling software is 
>>>>>>> adequate for
>>>>>>> the typical antenna environment, e.g. antennas below a wavelength.  Also
>>>>>>> conformation of directional antenna's front-to-back and forward gain for
>>>>>>> optimization purposes would be nice if even perhaps extravagant.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 73, Gary K5AMH
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PS: Most drone controllers use the STM ARM processors for which there
>>>>>>> is free open source drone software: https://betaflight.com/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 3/10/2021 2:34 PM, Rick Hiller via BVARC wrote:
>>>>>>>> Comment:  Is an FSD applicable?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Although an FSD would provide a close-in Far Field pattern of an 
>>>>>>>> antenna antenna installation, which is very cool indeed.  Is it really 
>>>>>>>> necessary in the world of Ham Radio?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We already have antenna modeling software based on the NEC which is 
>>>>>>>> quite accurate, depending on the set up parameters provided, of 
>>>>>>>> course.   That model analysis provides us with a pattern and a fair 
>>>>>>>> amount of operational information.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> But what do we (I) really want?  I want to know what and how my 
>>>>>>>> antenna is performing in the real world outside of my QTH.   Is it 
>>>>>>>> getting to Europe or VK?   When is the best time and frequency to get 
>>>>>>>> to Japan or South Africa?   Questions like this are not to be answered 
>>>>>>>> by a FSD.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> What we really need is a world wide system to detect our signals 
>>>>>>>> wherever they may occur.  So let's start thinking of that.  We just 
>>>>>>>> need a few hams on every continent to participate........Wait!  Not so 
>>>>>>>> fast.......there is already a system that does this.  WSPR   and it is 
>>>>>>>> available from a local amateur radio dealer -- SOTA Beams  
>>>>>>>> https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/wsprlite-classic.     QST Dec 2018 even 
>>>>>>>> has a review of this system. 
>>>>>>>> https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/content/QSTREVIEW.pdf 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now look, I am not poo pooing the FSD concept , ideas, discussion, 
>>>>>>>> etc.   Very cool indeed to get a group of folks excited and discussing 
>>>>>>>> antenna stuff.   Woo Hoo!  I'm all for it, being the antenna phreak 
>>>>>>>> that I am.   I'm just taking a step back and seeing if it is 
>>>>>>>> necessary, practical or even applicable for Hams.   Plus, maybe some 
>>>>>>>> don't know about WSPR.  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 73...Rick -- W5RH
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>        Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:57 PM Jeffery MacMillian via BVARC 
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Here is a good paper on this very topic.....
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> https://www.narda-sts.com/en/selective-emf/srm-3006-field-strength-analyzer/eID/pd/pdce/9063/pdfr/9500/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> have Fun,
>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>> KC5TT
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:31 PM Tom Watson via BVARC 
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Brilliant!  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 12:22 AM Mark Brantana via BVARC 
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, what is an FSD? It is a Field Strength Drone. It’s an idea I am 
>>>>>>>>>>> sure others have had, and I don’t expect to get around to designing 
>>>>>>>>>>> or patenting such a thing. But inventions are often just the 
>>>>>>>>>>> merging of new technologies, and this is not much different. I 
>>>>>>>>>>> don’t see any YouTubes about this or any other reference, so here’s 
>>>>>>>>>>> the idea:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> With all the capabilities of little drones I wonder if anyone has 
>>>>>>>>>>> designed one which can carry a field strength meter and fly a grid 
>>>>>>>>>>> around an antenna to evaluate antenna performance. The guts of my 
>>>>>>>>>>> little Radio Shack FSM would have weighed way less than an ounce.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Ideally, the field strength meter could communicate to the base 
>>>>>>>>>>> through the drone transmitter, reducing weight. Software at the 
>>>>>>>>>>> base could link the drone 3D location data with the FS reading. The 
>>>>>>>>>>> drone would have to wait at test locations for the operator to 
>>>>>>>>>>> transmit, and ideally would move to the next location. Finally, the 
>>>>>>>>>>> software might be able to link with existing simulation software 
>>>>>>>>>>> for comparison with theory and allow for simulation model 
>>>>>>>>>>> improvement. This looks like it would take a small team to develop.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like it would have many uses besides antenna 
>>>>>>>>>>> evaluation, like RFI evaluation.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What about it? Has anyone done this?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>> N5PRD
>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> BVARC mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> BVARC mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: 
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> BVARC mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org
>>>>>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: 
>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Rick Hiller  
>>>>>>>> e-mail:     [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Cell:        832-474-3713
>>>>>>>> Physical: 9031 Troulon Drive
>>>>>>>>                Houston, TX 77036
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> BVARC mailing list
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>>>>>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org
>>>>>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: 
>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Gary Sitton, K5AMH 
>>>>>>> [email protected] 
>>>>>>> SDR/DSP Consultant, 
>>>>>>> "Have FFTs, Will Travel." 
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>>>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>>>> 
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>>> ________________________________________________
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>>> 
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>> 
>> ________________________________________________
>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
>> 
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>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rick Hiller  
> e-mail:     [email protected]
> Cell:        832-474-3713
> Physical: 9031 Troulon Drive
>                Houston, TX 77036
> ________________________________________________
> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club
> 
> BVARC mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org
> Publicly available archives are available here: 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
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