Ernie: As I said, you're a Manichaean. OK, I'm very unconventional and far from ideal ( to understate things ), but about this issue, I think I'm the Christian. That is, in Christian tradition you get 7 major vices and 7 major virtues. Each does not rise to the primal level of love and fear, but it still seems to me that about half of them do, like envy, desire for justice, "hope" defined as "expectation of good," not necessarily of love, greed, pride ( in this sense a reference to status worship ), and maybe one or two others. But if you are a convert to Manichaeanism, OK, I don't have a serious problem with that, we all deserve freedom of religion ;-) Billy ----------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 4/10/2009 10:55:55 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Hi Billy, On Apr 10, 2009, at 10:36 AM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) wrote: Ernie: Guess I partly conflated the concepts, but for a reason. Namely, authority is motivation, as I'm sure you have noticed. Motivation therefore can act as a surrogate for authority. Okay, then I posit that there are only two primal sources of motivation: love and fear. And just to be redundantly clear, by "love" I mean a devotion encompassing both "will" and "emotion", not just the fuzzy feeling you get when looking at a hot babe. ;-) - Ernie P. Billy sent from my Desk Top and off the top of my head ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 4/10/2009 9:11:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: Um, we were discussing authority, not motivation. Money is desired for many reasons, but it only creates authority when associated with power. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 9, 2009, at 11:24 PM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) wrote: Ernie : Is money power ? About this the answer seems to be, "it depends." A lot of times it is. But at other times it would be a real stretch to say so, viz, someone seeks money in order to get sex, a vacation in Cozumel, a new Stutz Bearcat, or, say, to help out the Red Cross. So, while market advantage may be related to power, in cases it isn't. Maybe it usually is, at a 51 % rate minimum. I have no way to be sure. But even if the hard figure is 90 % ( which seems high ) that still would leave a category for hedonism --or altruism. And aren't both hedonism and altruism important motivators ? Even if such a category is relatively small it still exists and applies to some % of people. Those who "love" the subject of their professional expertise ? Ummmmmmm. Isn't that kind of an elastic definition of love ? In other words, yes, I love the study of ancient history, I really do. But this kind of love isn't remotely like the love I may feel for a woman, or for family. Love of history, in other words, is metaphor, essentially. In the case of study of antiquity, it is a combination of fascination, curiosity, intrigue, and ego gratification. Sure, with a break or two, maybe I can convert my knowledge of history into other Goods, but I'd study history even if there were no other Goods available. I'd guess that a serious physicist would feel likewise about physics, And so forth, for psychoanalysts, zoologists, astronomers, and you name it. This said, yes, some people go into a profession for extrinsic rewards, no question about it. But subtract the maximum and I think you still get a decent % who are , so to speak, "pure in heart." No ? Established and useful tradition. A good idea, wouldn't you say ? The concept is educational ( in a broad sense ). Why screw up a perfectly good tradition when people are able to learn from it ? " If it isn't broken, don't fix it." This assumes a viable tradition, and in the example of Pluto, there are astronomers who argue for planet status on empirical grounds. Other traditions may need to go, no problem with that outlook. But what about serviceable traditions ? At least this is my view of the matter Aum Billyananda In a message dated 4/9/2009 9:47:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: Hi Billy, On Apr 9, 2009, at 3:05 PM, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) wrote: > Actually, at least IMHO, there are a minimum of 4 sources of > authority > -- control, cie vous plait-- > besides power and love, also market advantage ( who gives you > advantage, you > tend to go along with, and sapiential authority. This was the late > Robert Theobald's > coinage, to stand for the leadership of "knowers," viz, > professionals like scientists, > doctors, professors, and so forth. Granted no-one has pure motives, > no-one, > we all fall short of the glory of God, but as a general principle. That may be one of the ways we differ. I see market advantage as related to power, and sapiental authority only valid if it reflects people who love the subject more than I do -- not just because they have more information about it. I also find it amusing that you add a completely different category to justify your Pluto claim. :-) > Established and useful tradition. Which still begs the question "useful to whom" -- and who gets to decide how useful? -- Ernie P. _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: (mailto:[email protected]) [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) Archives at _http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/) _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: (mailto:[email protected]) [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) Archives at (http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/) _http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/) _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/ _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) _http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com_ (http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com) Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/ = _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
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