Ernie : "the fact remains that all the "Worlds that are seen" arose from 'something' before it that is "unseen"." Uhhh, wasn't this what I said I think is the case ? I get your point, but I don't assume a dichotomy between seen and unseen, since both, in my view anyway, are simply two versions of the same thing. No one beginning, but an endless process of beginnings, including , in some form, what we call the universe -which may turn out to be just a sub-universe. There always, therefore, must be "something," even if, in one volume of a zillion units it is X, such as the realm of physics we are familiar with, which in the grand scheme of things may be dominant, and in another it may be Y ( 4 dimensions ) or Z ( anti-matter or bizarre physics ). The best reading of both implies to me that God (gods, divinity, whatever) pre-existed whatever we perceive as the material universe. How can some form, however exotic, of the material universe not exist ? Guess this makes me, on this issue anyway, more-or-less a Mormon. So I see "God (gods, divinity, whatever)" as interdependent with matter / mattergy. Sort of like the inside and outside of the same thing. Sure, what is most precious about life are things unseen, like love, inspirational ideas, spiritual experiences, etc, but unless one believes in reincarnation ( which strikes me as wholly unjustifiable ) then you can say that unless we "materialized as natural beings with arms and legs and all the rest, the unseen things would necessarily be a big fat zero and would not exist. After death ? Ernie, I just don't know. My suspicion is that Arthur Clark had it at least somewhat right. But how can we know, as in actually know, vs strong belief or even reasonable speculation belief ? My view suggests that "the soul" will always take some sort of 3 dimensional form. Maybe as pure energy, or physical along the lines of popular myths about ghosts ( but NOT ghosts per se, an idea I regard as primitive ), but it could be almost anything. But no point in belaboring all of this. Neither of us can verify our ideas on the subject. We are stuck with what seem to each of us as " the best " probabilities. Billy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ In a message dated 4/6/2010 12:00:15 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Hi Billy, On Apr 5, 2010, at 11:38 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Genesis 1 may well describe the beginnings of this world, and existence from > our world's perspective, but beyond that ? Anyway, how about > Wisdom of Solomon 9 : 9 ? Wisdom, personified as a Goddess in > everything but name, was present with God at the Creation. > But it is not the Creation account of Genesis, rather we get an > ongoing Creation since, to refer to Wis Sol 7 : 17 where there > are said to be epochs of elements, and 19 : 19 where we get > land animals that took to the sea and swimming things that > in their time took to the land, viz, Darwin in a Biblical version. Even if you accept the Wisdom of Solomon as canonical, nothing there contradicts being "a" beginning. > Here's the problem. The universe is essential to God -or in my > way of thinking God / Goddess. Indeed, creation ( lower case ) > is likewise essential. Therefore creation is also eternal even if, > obviously, there are local Creations and local declines > and endings. That seems to be your fundamental assumption, but I honestly don't think it fits either the biblical or scientific evidence. The best reading of both implies to me that God (gods, divinity, whatever) pre-existed whatever we perceive as the material universe. He/they may well exist in some "Q-continuum" beyond our perception, along with imaginary quantum fluctuations or whatever else is out there, but the fact remains that all the "Worlds that are seen" arose from 'something' before it that is "unseen". You can believe otherwise if you like, but the evidence appears to be strongly against you. E _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
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