The death penalty is barbaric. Those who issue and speak of revenge as
a means to an end and as justice are clueless and I suspect in their
old age will realize it and repent. The eye for an eye thing is as
ridiculous. For in those books it also says people shall be judged in
the light they judge and vengence is reserved for a higher power...
Those selecting theology and religious utterings should also be found
slaughtering animals, consuming kosher items, shedding themselves of
their gold and other valueable godless creations.
The American justice system is a big joke and a sham. We incarcerate
more people than any other country in the civilized world... I know
someone will claim Russia does more, but that is incorrect.
Statistics, do not count those housed in local facilities and those
under alternative programs and supervision. We additionally, have a big
state called Texas that executes even the mentally retarded at an
alarming rate. Uncool.
McVeigh made a political statement in response to the government's
abuse at Ruby Ridge and Waco... read those accounts... how many people
died there and how many agencies and agents covered things up... what
is the net punishment dolled out? Some job transfers and some probation
for a few selective pawns... it is disgusting... I recall a story from
California where agent raided the ranch of a legally blind fellow,
shooting him to death because local officials claimed he was growing of
all things Marijuana... No Marijuana... false story.. turns out they
wanted his property to build over a highway... and then the black
minister in Boston who died of a heart attack after agents unannounced,
burst into his apartment guns drawn... why drugs.. sorry wrong door,
dead person.
The United States government does a great job at pyscho-logical
warfare. Does it make sense that they put daycare centers in the same
buildings as their key security agencies? It is as stupid as putting
daycare in the middle of a war field or on military bases... McVeigh
like most people had a cause, an issue and no outlet. McVeigh is the
tip of the iceberg. When the judicial system only judges the poor,
alternative and radicals, but doesn't judge itself, acts of internal
strife and disobedience become both the outlet and remedy in part to
the real problem.
Not to divert attention from McVeigh's actions however. McVeigh was in
part responsible for blowing up a building and killing some 168 people
and injuring more. Not aceptable. McVeigh should have remained
incarcerated. It is embarassing that we execute people.
I have a photo from Indiana circa 1920's people having picnics,
watching three people being hung... We are barbaric in this country
and find this sort of thing entertaining. It is a good reminder of the
not so distant past.
If we are going to execute people and punish people with violence for
violence, we should televise the acts, make crime scene and other
footage widely available and expose everyone to it. In opposite, if
such is vile and disgusting and Attorney General Ashcroft states, we
should stop the death penalty and stop showing violence, murder, gun
play, etc. on primetime television, and certainly not televise it to a
bunch of people who allegedly spent years grieving over their own loss.
My bottom line is that today, people in the United States are resting
on their laurels, accepting what gets doled out... not expecting
fairness or justice... silently, hoping nothing ever goes wrong in
their worlds... self centeredly ignoring the real social and economic
issues that continue to erode a great democracy and ideally, one of the
best countries to ever exist. Capitalism puts a price and cap on what
people will say and when.
I read the mainstream medias commentary and reports of people who
witnessed the execution. Oddly, some people were maddened by McVeigh's
honorable solider like acceptance of his fate. It is really scary that
people want revenge and to see any life form suffer. What would make
these blood thirsty masses happy? For McVeigh to cry and beg to just
be denied. McVeigh was honorable at least in his death and stuck by
what he believed, like it or not. His life will remain an unfortunate
example of the frustration and inequity and some people's
responsiveness to a system that won't govern itself. Perhaps his
government training went to his head better than most anyone history
has ever known. Unfortunately, we as humans once again pointed out that
we can't get along intellectually, that brutality must rule.
I hope never to see another execution, nor explosion. Timothy McVeigh
had the right ideas, but chose the wrong forum and the wrong actions.
We chose the wrong reactions.
Learn to hate the acts of people, not people.
-paris
[finding the future in the past, passing the future in the present]
[connecting people, places and things]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Gilchrist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:08:36 -0400
Subject: FW: Revenge has it's place
> Just realized I forgot the original argument for the death penalty,
> that
> it's a deterrent.
> I guess this is the one that's hardest to make a decision about, I
> find
> myself making a value call on this one. Although, I guess it could
> be said
> that the crime rate dropped in New York City by putting huge numbers
> of
> additional cops on the streets. I imagine the death penalty existed
> during
> the before and after the crime rate drop. Nope, it's a value call,
> it's too
> easy to counter by saying "a booming economy with more people working
> will
> experience less crime". Just don't know. Sorry for the prattling,
> this is
> just an immigrant trying to make up his mind about a practice that
> doesn't
> exist where he comes from.
>
> All the best,
> Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Gilchrist
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:10 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Revenge has it's place
>
>
> What are people's thoughts on the idea that a person rotting in jail
> for the
> rest of their lives is punishment enough for any crime? It's
> interesting
> that in Ireland we just voted out the any provision for capital
> punishment
> out of the constitution (we also just rejected the European Nice
> treaty and
> shocked a lot of people, an interesting mix of left and right
> (anti-federalism)).
>
> I don't want to start a flame war so I'll try and provide some
> counterpoints
> and rebuttals.
>
> "But we need to make sure that person is never in a position to
> commit
> murder/atrocities again"
> Surely this is met by keeping someone in a cell for the rest of their
> life
> without parole.
>
> "Modern jails are too easy on murderers. They can watch TV and read
> books."
> Isn't that torture and a cruel irony in itself?
> Watching TV, to me, would just remind me of everything I can't be a
> part of
> anymore.
> And as for reading books, that provides an opportunity for the
> greatest
> punishment of all, that a person reach a point where they actually
> do
> realize remorse but yet still have to live with the result of their
> actions.
> And even if a prisoner went to their grave unrepentant, do we the
> public,
> not have the last laugh so to speak, that somebody could be so
> misguided and
> stupid?
>
> "The bible says an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"
> I'm no scholar and I think the quote is from the Old Testament but is
> it not
> superceded (such a geek versionistic approach) by the New Testament
> to
> practice forgiveness "and turn the other cheek."
>
> "People like that need to be removed from the gene-pool."
> Satisfied by life imprisonment with life parole I would think.
>
> "Why should I as a tax-payer pay to keep someone in jail for their
> lifetime."
> It's actually cheaper to do so than to pay death-row appeals which we
> have
> concede are necessary. In a perfect world the justice system would
> put
> guilty people on death-row but that isn't always the case as
> evidenced by
> all the pardons been given by new DNA evidence in recent years. Such
> a big
> problem in one state that it had to issue a moratorium in death
> sentences
> until it can do a review of it's judicial system.
>
> I'm genuinely interested in just exploring the issue and keen to see
> if
> there may be other arguments to continue capital punishment other
> than a
> value judgment, i.e. "what you've said makes sense but sorry, that
> person
> has to die and that's just the way I feel about" which is fine.
>
> (sorry about that, got me thinking...
> rant over.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edward Chanter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:41 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: Revenge has it's place
>
>
> Isn't that what the Klu Klux Klan used to do to people?
>
> > --- Original Message ---
> > "I think they should have drug the SOB behind a pickup to
> > Oklahoma City and
> > hung him in the square"
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
