Again answer inline. > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:39 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: The Anti Terrorism Act.. > > > > Maybe I was being a bit extreme in thinking of them as > irrational, but if > > the phenomenon is not objectively observable and > reproducible then it goes > > into the realm of magical thinking. In other words its > beyond the realm of > > science. When I was doing work in this area, what was I > supposed to say to > > the clients, "Try doing this, it may or may not work, we > don't know. We > > don't know how even to measure it, but give it a try anyhow." If > > a physician > > tried that it would be grounds for malpractice at least. > Similarly if an > > engineer tried that he's be laughed out of the profession. > The point being > > is that in scientific research, and applications thereof, objective > > observation and reproducibility is required. > > But what you've done is take anything that can't be counted > in your hand, or > looked on with your eyes, and placed it in the realm of > 'magical thinking'. > I'm sorry, but you need to experience more before you can > make that claim. > As it is we have no frame for debate. > > As to your second point, if you don't think that doctors > 'try' things they > aren't sure of, then you obviously haven't dealt with many > doctors. As a > physician and he will tell you that treating the sick is > often more an art > then a skill.
Um lets see does an ABD, (all but dissertation) in experimental/Cognitive psych, count as experience? try another one. I have no intention of getting into a personal insult contest. The effect of placebos are well documented and observable. The mechanisms behind placebos are being understood. I guess then that given your hypothesis one would expect that for instance, the remission rate for many different forms of cancer has been stable for the last few decades, since medicine is an art? As for unobservable, my dissertation was on the effects of hypnotizability and dissertation on sustained attention tasks. We had three groups of people, those rated by standardized instruments as not very hypnotizable (0-3 on the Stanford Hypnotic Susceptibility Scale Form C -SHSC), moderately hypnotizable (5-7 on the SHSC) and highly hypnotizable (10-12 on the SHSC). The were exposed to 4 conditions within a repeated measures experimental design. No distracter, white noise, two exerts from science fiction novels rated as highly involving/interesting, and two lectures on accounting methods that were rated as very boring. Unfortunately I had to discard the data from a group of subjects since they were accounting students who were taking a test on that topic later that week. They were exposed to a standard vigilance task within each condition, during hypnosis and without hypnosis. Presentation order was randomly varied within each hypnosis and nonhypnosis condition, which was also randomly presented. The point I am making here is that I think that my training, experience and research allows me some authority to talk about what may be considered 'magical' thinking. Can you say the same? > > > Again however the liquor companies don't try to addict > children. Its been > > shown by their own documents that the tobacco companies actively > > engaged in > > such actions. There is a difference. > > You only 'know' that tobacco companies targeted minors > because the paperwork > was revealed. Open up any companies advertising and I think > you'll find a > large percentage of the outlook is directed at securing NEW > customers as > they become 'available' to the product. From what I've seen tobacco > companies haven't done anything that alcohol manufacturers > didn't do. We > just haven't investigated them... yet! > > > And what about corporations? From what I understand, they also > > have rights, > > but they are definitely not individuals. > > Corporations are by law 'individuals'. > > > > Do the world a favour then don't play the Liberace album at > 4am, I may > > exercise my right to target practice shortly thereafter. :) > > Liberace is bad > > enough but Liberace doing Sex Pistol covers is scary. Think > of Pat Boone > > doing metal, only worse. > > Trust me... I won't! The sad part of it is that it wasn't a bad album. But the so called Christian sector went ballistic on him. Such intolerance was a real pity. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
