Actually, I was just being sneaky and asking for a subject change so that the system doesn't fry with a 360+ message thread. :)
There's just so many facets here that the numbers never tell the full story. In NY (and probably in a lot of 'blue states') we see one result while in other places we see another. In business we see one thing in international type companies while in smaller or more local ones we see another. On the other hand, I was wrong for singling Gel out and have apologized already publicly and privately. But yes, this is one of those eternal threads of doom which will never end, nor be resolved without bloodshed and muffins. > Well, Mike asked us to drop the thread and I suppose he is right. I > don't see any minds getting changed here. I can see that affirmative > action may seem insulting but personally? I don't see programs for > women that way and was very glad to get my SBA loan, thank you. > I find it frankly incredible that women aren't applying for good jobs. > > I also met a heck of a lot of really nice little kids who probably > grew up to have not much of a chance. Saying any chance at all is good > enough doesn't seem much comfort when thinking of particular children. > I am still troubled by those Urban Institute reports, so perhaps I > should not say no minds got changed. > > It was a good discussion and some interesting ideas were expressed. > > Dana > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:10:11 -0600, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Angel wrote: > > > >I'm saying that if a minority can easily get into a top university, > > > This is not true. > > > >and can easily get a top position at a top firm > > > And neither is this. > > > > Gel, I don't find your sources credible because my personal and > > on-going experience is so completely different. > > > > My wife works for one of the top management consulting firms in the > > world. Many of the partners are regularly quoted in almost every > > business story you read and some currently have best-sellers on the > > business book shelf. The CEO of the firm is definitely a minority in > > a number of ways (3) and was not born in the US. > > > > 80% of the teams my wife works with are minorities, and 40% weren't > > born in America - which is why I'm saying, where are all the white > > male Americans? > > > > My wife also does recruiting for the firm and has reviewed thousands > > of CVs and interviewed hundreds of people. They do this in large > > teams and the decisions are made as a group. Easily over 60% of the > > applicants AREN'T WHITE MEN! > > > > I can tell you as an absolute fact, race is not a factor in who they > > hire. Further, she competes with the other 2 top firms for candidates > > and they regularly have "bake-offs" for them. That is, 3 top > > consulting firms are competing for the same people, and the majority > > are minorities! > > > > Part of her job is working with CEOs, CFOs, EVPs, etc and they usually > > make staffing changes for some of the largest companies in the world - > > qualification and experience, not race, is what they make their > > decision on. > > > > Previous to that we did some things in investment banking with > > companies you've heard of like MorganStanley and Deutsche Bank Gruppe. > > I can assure that race was not a factor there either, and the > > recruiting was exactly the same. > > > > In December I was in France at an industry meeting attended by top > > people in their fields. One of the key speakers was a Romanian woman > > who lived in the UAE. Another was an English woman, and another was a > > black African. White men were in the minority. > > > > Many of our friends and associates work for venture capital firms or > > private equity groups. The majority are minorities and they work for > > firms headed by minorities. Others are have top positions with > > Fortune 500 companies - many are women or minorities. > > > > Lastly, of all of these people, I've never heard a single one complain > > about institutional racism. > > > > You can write that off as "anecdotal evidence", but if I am to believe > > you these thousands of people I talk to and meet every year are all > > exceptions, and the dearth of white male applicants is a fluke. > > > > Basically you're telling me not to believe my lying eyes, and to > > believe you; that's not a compelling argument. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=17 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:145571 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
