On 3/23/07, Jim D wrote: > > > > On 3/23/07, Jim D wrote: > > .... > > > On everything, no - of course not. But blind, ignorant extremism in > > any > > > form just plain pisses me off. I'll gladly study up to fight it > > where I > > > find it - especially when I know something about the topic at hand. > > > > > > And, just so we're clear: what you think doesn't enter into it. > > > You're biased, Jim! Not nearly as bad as Nick, but still. > > We all are. ;^)
Not me! But I'm biased that way. <g> > I'm mostly biased against extremism honestly. I would leap as adamantly to > the defense of the Mac against a person that said they have nothing to > offer. > > My own opinions are actually pretty centrist: I prefer my PC and I won't > personally buy a Mac. But I would never suggest that anybody don't. > They're fine machines. Yeah, I know that man, it's easy to tell. I just like good games, ya know? Kinda evening it out a bit, if that's really how I am. Mostly just enjoying convo... > I just REALLY hate when my personal opinion about something so very simple > is trashed so ignorantly. > > > The benchmarking links were all bad :-/ but I thought it was funny > > that the entry from OSx86 re: 10.5 says "Note: requires a real mac" > > > > How does my argument of "same hardware, better testing" do? > > > > What did my argument of "a set configuration makes a difference" do? > > E.g. Dave's link about DVD drives? > > > > Are you really going to type with a straight face that knowing the > > target doesn't make for a more optimized delivery/execution? > > Never! But remember what we were arguing (we keep missing that here!): all > we are arguing is that you can indeed install Mac OX X on commodity PC > hardware and that it will work well enough to both understand the OS and > form a reasonable opinion of it. > > The benchmarks show that Mac OS runs respectably on no Apple hardware. No > "best", not "incredibly" but definitely well enough to form an opinion. Oh, sure. But Nick IS an extremist (sorry Nick, it's not a bad thing ;) and was making statements to the effect of "it doesn't matter, it's all intel inside". <g> The Same isn't always the Same, 'specially in a world where, what, like 3 companies actually make ALL the meat that goes in ALL these bad boys? I thought it was a valid point. *sniff* Heh. > > I think Dave's point, that it's "not the same" has some merit. Even > > from a "but it's all the same basic parts" standpoint. > > It does if you're arguing how you _should_ run OS X, I agree completely. > Real Apple hardware means no compatibility issues and real Apple support. > But to say (as he did) that you unable to form a respectable opinion of OS X > by running it on a generic box is just plain wrong. I don't know, because IIRC, part of his argument was The Experience. You won't get The Experience if you built it yourself. That's outside the box. That may be stuff Nick doesn't need to worry about, as an experienced computer dude, but it is most assuredly a factor if we're talking The Experience. Part of the Joy is It Just Works. (well, moreso than most, to be true). I think Nick is trying to argue that there is not difference between what Apple does and what say, Dell does, or at least that's the impression I was getting, and I don't think that's so. Lots of stuff is made up of atoms, that doesn't mean everything is the same. Or at least that was the part of the argument I was going to wank with... > > I'm one of those brave souls who tried to put OSX on a PC. > > > > Only wanked for a bit on it, cuz that was real fun, and I have work > > to do... :-) but anyways, it's not like installing BSD on an x86 ;-) > > No - of course not - this is exactly the answer I've given Dave four times > now as he screams: "If it works so well why isn't everybody doing it!" > > It works - but it's a big pain in the ass to get running. However once > (if!) you get it running it's a reasonable platform. Part of The Joy of OS X is that it all works, together, easily. That's the same part of the Devil of MS, but that's a side... Thus, you and Dave (for sure Nick ;) will never see eye to eye on this point-- as, part of his point is that Apple is easy > > I think the point that Dave is getting at is that it's a different > > experience/world, on the Mac side. One that many people > > find to be "better" than the equiv PC experience. I know if > > I had to choose between Vista and OS X, I'd go OS X. > > I'll never argue against that. Mac is, definitely, without a doubt, > cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die better for some people. Mostly it's just different, but different of a fine caliber. I can appreciate beauty, and it is a beauty! Truly... man, to think it's BSD?!?!? Wow. > But not for everybody. > > Dave is of the opinion that NOBODY who "really knows" could possibly choose > Windows over a Mac. > > That's just plain zealotry and more than a little insulting. Maybe. I feel that way about certain un alienable rights. I'm like, "HOW COULD YOU FEEL THAT WAY". Makes sense to me, but yeah, it's pretty funny when you think about it. Who are we to make heads or tails out of reality? ;-) For this stuff, eh... not such a big deal. There's a lot of Religion in computers. It's when you start getting kinda outta hand (yes, you Dave) that things should be, well, Todd-ed. =P LOL > > Course, if I had to choose between vista and linux, I'd go > > linux. That's what's going on *this* bad boy I'm typing on, > > whenever I get around to the next wipe. Hell, maybe I'll > > try installing OS X... Should be a snap by now, neh? ;-) > > No - it's still a pain in the ass. ;^) Don't know whether to be happy or sad. There is a leetness to the difficult... Impossible is where the real funs at tho. > > Thus, I "like" Apple better than Microsoft. As Jim "likes" > > Microsoft better than Apple. > > That's all I want! And admission that is possible! ;^) It's possible, but you'd have to be crazy!!! Like someone who puts catchup on their eggs... > > Eh. Yeah, I think time will evolve both, and we'll see > > what happens, but I wanna give props to Apple and > > OS X-- It truly was innovative, and pretty swell. > > > > How many years did it take for Vista to get here? > > Where is my DB driven file system?!?!? ;-) > > Well - there are definitely benefits in development time to tyrannically > controlling your hardware. ;^) Too shay! :-) The People are the ones who are winning, competition is good, and yes, I like Microsoft fine, they really have gotten on the ball over the last few years... I was impressed when I took some MS cert test-- Most of the stuff I'd learned via OpenSSL and whatnot was actually in there. Kick ass stuff is possible with Active Directory... My main deal is the Open Source... Apple supports (just out of it's own interests, probably, but still) where as MS has historically seen it as The Enemy. That mind-set bothers me and makes me want to support Apple over MS. And Local Yokels the mostest. ;-) > But, as it always is, a game of leap frog. MS is doing amazing things in > some areas, Apple in some and in others they're competing directly with one > or the other getting the upper hand then losing it and so forth. > > They're both at the tops of their games, both well worth watching (and > emulating). To ignore either one for what amounts to religious reasons > means that you're missing out a lot. Hah! I got so excited at the beginning I started a response without finishing reading your last paragraph. Glad to see religion in here. Now if only we could get Nick and Dave to mellow out a bit... LOL Yup, you're alright br'er Jim. You heathen you. -PS Have I mentioned that some of my favorite people are Republicans? :-D ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. 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