> You have not lol... You just keep going on about your imaginary > studies and biased web sites..
Oh right, I forgot that in your mind to respect you means I have to agree with you. Well, you are doing such an amazing job at this point of contradicting your own statements, I'm not sure I need to even reply, but what the heck, I'll give it one more shot.... > Were did i say it gave them negative results... i didn't, I just said > it affects their behaviors and can change their personality Your exact statement was: "Like I said on an adult it will cause behavioral issues and will be more painful but a neuter would do the same thing so I can't justify one over the other." This statement clearly is saying that both declaws and neuters cause behavioral issues in adults. ISSUES, not just changes. And that you wouldn't justify one over the other....again implying that these are negative results, so you would see no reason to do it. You earlier say this: ""Neutering females does not result in such dramatic changes as it does in males." umm yeah... just like i be frickin sayin all along" Uh no, you said it *does* change their behavior. Are you changing your mind now?? You keep see-sawing so much between it does change behavior and it does *not* change behavior I can't keep up any more. In any case, it doesn't say females don't change at all after neutering...just that it is not as drastic as in males where you have greater issues with fighting and aggression and marking. > I am using it as a comparison. When you say that declawing changes a > cats behavior and personality I said yes it can in an adult cat but > neutering an adult cat will also change his behavior and personality Okay, so we're back to that it *does* change behavior. As I keep saying though (which you clearly are not getting), the changes observed when declawing are *negative* results (greater incidence of biting, shyness, litter problems, etc.) Those observed when neutering are *positive* results. So there is no basis for comparison, when it comes to recommending one over the other. This would be like looking at two different medications to give to a hyper-active child...one calms them down and helps them learn, one hypes them up even more. One is a positive behavioral change, the other a negative. By your line of reasoning I would say "Well, they both change behavior, so I can't recommend one over the other." Can you not see how that is just totally silly?? > and you suggest that a declaw is way worse in terms of pain... > well it isn't. Okay, show me the studies that demonstrate this and have measured the amount of pain for both. You keep going on and on about how I can't just throw out personal opinion...so don't do the same. The declaw surgery is kind of considered the "standard" method for testing pain therapies in cats, why is that, hmm?? > umm ok... several years is at least 3 and most vets graduate in 3 1/2 > - 4 years & your original statement was that you thought about going > to vet school and worked a little bit part time at a vet hospital Not sure what difference any of this makes as you are not going to respect anything I write regardless (I find it interesting the totally different tone your posts take now that you are addressing me rather than Sean) but as I said in my earlier post I attended vet school for over two years and worked as a vet assistant as well for a number of years (pretty much a requirement if you want to be a vet). And yes, it was not an easy decision to make after all that time and effort but I also didn't see the point in putting even another year into a career I had found was not something I wanted to do. > then the avma official statement: > "There is no scientific evidence that declawing leads to behavioral > abnormalities when the behavior of declawed cats is compared with that > of cats in control groups." Which again, contradicts what you keep saying yourself...that adult cats can have behavioral changes (as this statement is not making any distinction by age). You refer to the studies I list that give differing results from these as "imaginary studies" (again, interesting how you say *I* only want to see the side of things that support my position...pot, kettle, black), well heck, I don't need any studies at ALL, you have said many times in this thread that you can see changes in adult cats. And you say it's no different that doing a neuter in that respect. Well, I've not seen any studies on early declaws...but there are a ton of studies out there on early spay/neuter which show that you get the same behavioral benefits by doing it early, so clearly being young certainly does not mean they are exempt from change. > maybe next time just say that in my opinion it may lead to behavioral > issues and myself and others think it is cruel and inhumane." Hey, I have no problem with that at all, but only if you also agree not to say that it's not just peachy keen and fine to declaw kittens, as a matter of routine, as *you* originally posted. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:249161 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
