> I know Sean is pissed and ur pissed but again i am just coming at it > from years of schooling and over a decade in the field.
For what's it's worth, I'm not pissed off because you disagree with me or take a different position on the issue...if I required the entire world to agree with everything I believe and say, I'd be pissed off all the time. I do however get annoyed when someone's basic argument is that "I have more education and experience in this area, therefore what I say must be right." Whether you intend it or not, that's how a lot of what you are saying comes off to me. I've just seen too many instances of vets *not* being right about things to ever accept that as an argument. The sad fact is that money for research on companion animals is still sorely lacking, studies done often more anecdotal than scientifically valid, and our knowledge and understanding of many issues is constantly changing and evolving as a result. It used to be just accepted that yearly vaccines are essential to protect your pets...we now know that it can be dangerous and detrimental to their health (although this is still not completely accepted either and many vets still recommend yearly shots). I used to be told that dry food was best for my cats as it would help clean their teeth and would not go bad when left out. We now know that wet diets are better for cats due to the higher water content which is important for them to stay properly hydrated. We continue to get new information on neutering/spaying and its effects and have to wade through a maze of confusing and conflicting information of whether it's beneficial or harmful and what age is best if you do it, etc. Even in your posts, you're sending conflicting messages...you agree that declawing cats can have bad consequences, writing this about adult declaws "It is painful and once a cat understands the uses of it's claws (scratching, fighting, etc..) it can cause behavioral issues." Yet you think we should take the studies that show no differences in behavior at face value...even though these are not studies that separate out kittens from cats and thus do not agree with your own observations when they say there is no difference in behavior of declawed versus non-declawed cats. Nor is there any adequate explanation why other studies show conflicting information. We can't just pick and choose the ones we like and agree with...we have to simply accept that currently, the jury is still out on this issue...and it always may be due to the difficulty of isolating a single contributing factor when it comes to things like behavior. There are many owners like me that have anecdotal stories of their kittens and/or cats changing after a declaw...but you are right that there's no way we can know for sure that the declaw was the contributing factor, versus other things like just the stress of a surgery. And little of what we discussed even touches on the ethical and moral questions that people often deal with in this area. I never even implied that you "want to mutilate" cats, my own experience is that most vets don't care for this operation and would certainly prefer not to do it. Actually a survey of vets in 1991 showed this, with over 78% responding that they did not advocate declawing and only did it on request. But there are wide ranges in approach, from vets that refuse to do it, to ones that only do it on request, to those that actively sell it along with spay/neuters. While I personally disagree with the vast majority of the animal rights agenda, there's no doubt that it has had an effect on our society and our relationship with animals. It's nowhere near as common to look at them at objects we own that we can do what we please with, there is a more a tendency to look at them as living beings that should be accorded a certain amount of respect and dignity. The huge outrage with the Vick dog fighting case alone shows this societal change we've had, and the rising outcry against declawing is certainly a reflection of this. With one city already banning declawing, it's likely at least some others will follow. While many disagree with the ban and prefer we not try and effect what should be a decision between the owner and their vet, a great many people are still calling for at a minimum better informed consent on the procedure and in other areas such as vaccines where there are pros and cons that need to be weighed. While perhaps many pet owners will declaw regardless and don't care to hear such information, many others are saying it's not right that this information is ever withheld, any more than it should be for people that are undergoing medical procedures. The council member that proposed the legislation banning declaws in West Hollywood even mentions this in his statements...how he'd had two cats declawed and was never even told what the surgery truly entailed, and was angry and upset when he found out. On the flip side, we have this animal rights agenda that often is often moving forward in ways that can be detrimental to owning pets, and it can be quite a maze to decipher sometimes what things they are doing that are good for our pets and what may result in dire consequences if they become commonplace. We are seeing new laws for instance that allow for monetary awards in cases of malpractice that exceed the value of the animal (since typically they are afforded the same status as property). While this has its positive aspects (the actual monetary value of most animals is ridiculously low, and seldom reflects the years of training and care put into them) high caps for punitive damages are sure to raise the cost of vet care which is only likely to reduce the number of people that can afford it as a result. One thing of note on declawing though is that clearly many that come out against it do *not* have an animal rights agenda. For instance, CFA who as mentioned has clear statements against declawing came forward strongly to oppose the legislation in West Hollywood (stating that it should still be a decision left to the individual cat owner and their vet.) Finally, here's an article for an animal shelter website which is one of the best I think I've seen on the issue. It truly does seem to cover as well as possible both sides of the issue, as well as some of the ethical questions, which are often hardest for those that run shelters. If someone wants to adopt a cat but plans to declaw them, do you allow it in the interest of saving the cat's life, if he might be put to sleep otherwise? Such a person is likely to just go elsewhere if you refuse, so it's similar to the position most vets find themselves in as well, that refusing to do it is unlikely to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. They also bring up the conundrum you mention yourself...is it right to declaw a kitten who hasn't even yet had a chance to show if it will be a problem or not, versus trying to save it from more pain and problems if the owner does decide to do it later. It's a very good read for anyone that has been following this thread with interest: http://tinyurl.com/2t26ly There's one thing we can certainly agree on as well, that if someone does plan to have a declaw done, they should research the vet they plan to use and at least make sure they are using the newer methods for performing it which are less traumatic and have fewer complications. Personally I also always prefer vets that will answer my questions without trying to rush me out the door and that seem willing to share whatever information they have....I *look* for a vet that will tell me all the pluses and minuses of anything we decide to do. Unfortunately we have a bit of a shortage of vets in my own area, and I've had trouble with the ones I've been to so far. Most recently we had to put one of my dogs on Rimadyl (after trying a number of other therapies) and the vet gave me absolutely ZERO information whatsoever about the possible side-effects of this drug, something that they are supposed to do, as recommended by both the manufacturer as well as the FDA. It's things like that which convince me that it's my job as a pet owner to educate and be informed myself and not just rely on someone else. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:249102 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
