First, to say the Bible is meant to teach forgiveness is a mighty simplistic treatment of the Bible. Forgiveness is a component of Christianity, but it is not a cut and dried matter of who forgives and who gets forgiven. It's a topic theologians have debated for centuries or more, so it's a rather complex topic. Plus the Bible covers much more than forgiveness. It also covers what God expects of his people and what the consequences are for those who reject God. The flood is just but one example. And the example it teaches, to answer your question, is that God will punish those who reject Him.
You need to re-read John. Jesus removed no one. He chased them out. Surely they ran from fear, but again, there is no evidence that any one was harmed. Yes, Jesus could have done more, but that would not have suited his purposes or his mission. In a way, Jesus ultimately will do more. Certainly God can kill whenever he wants to. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be God, now would he? The question is, does he kill whenever he wants to. The stories in the OT show him killing for specific reasons. It does not necessarily follow that every person who kills now (or 1,000 years ago) in the name of God is actually acting in the name of God or under the command of God. One may say that he kills by God's command, but the evidence of divine revelation, taken as a whole, shows that this killer does not kill under God's command. It does not follow that if the Pope says kill people it does not follow, per se, that this is the command of God. This is the fallacy of a false cause, meaning event A does not necessarily cause event B. It does not follow that killing people is just and good simply because they disagree with your faith. It could very well be a sin because it is not necessarily God's will that you kill these people. And why can't it be true that only Noah and his family believed in the true and living God? There had been very little divine revelation up to this point in human history. There was only general revelation, from which Noah drew his faith, while all others worshiped false gods. Of course, the count of 8 presumes the Bible is to be taken literally on this account. The archelogical record and historical record indicates that the major flood of the period did not literally cover the entire earth. I've been very brief in my answer to you. These are all very deep theological issues for which I am not necessarily the best equipped to argue the case, nor do I have time to go into great detail, but I respond merely to assert some alternative views to your position. While you raise some good and challenging questions, I think you would benefit from reading the entire Bible all of the way through (if you have, I apologize for assuming you haven't) and trying to see it from the themes it develops and the many messages it conveys. I took two Bible as Literature classes in college (a secular community college) and it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I am far from a Bible scholar, but the Bible is no simplistic document that can be dismissed with narrow notions of God's nature nor God's plan. H. -----Original Message----- From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:47 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > As for the righteous indignation Jesus displayed. As we know > from the OT (or Torah), God has often displayed his wrath at > those who reject him or reject his commands. Displayed His wrath? Hang on, he KILLED the whole population of the Earth apart from 8 people... EIGHT PEOPLE... That's one HELL of a wrath! (no pun intended) - if Jesus took any guidance from His Father, then the money lenders got off lightly - not only would I read into the section that he physically removed them (with violence) but He was lenient compared to what He could have done if He had followed His Father's example The Bible is meant to teach forgiveness, but not only does it not do this, is shows where God just decided to kill a people because they either didn't believe in Him, or were violent or depraved... What example does this teach His followers? From what I understand, the terrorists who kill people "in the name of God" are just following His example - he has shown that He can kill whoever He wants to, whenever He wants to... So if you are doing things in God's name, then you can quite happily kill people... This is how the Crusades came about - they basically went on a killing spree of those who didn't follow the right faith... If God can do it, and the Pope is the mouth of God on Earth, then wouldn't it follow that if His Holiness said "Go kill those people", then God is telling you to kill those people... If we are meant to follow the word of God because he is Just and Good - then killing people who do not follow your religion is therefore Just and Good - doesn't that follow? Just be glad that none of the terrorists have nuclear weapons - if they did they could hit the polar ice caps, melt the ice and produce the second flood, purging the Earth of the faithless - even those who do have faith as He did this with Noah... Noah's family can't have been the only people who believed in God at that time... So, melting the ice caps will do the same thing - can you imagine them building another Ark and trying this? Philip Arnold Technical Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 F: +44 (0)20 8686 7911 An ISO9001 registered company. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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