I don't take it as an insult. However, it is a judgment. Whether it is an accurate judgment, based on evidence collected, it a judgment nevertheless.
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:47 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: From the OMFG files I bet you'd be surprised is a judgement? Actually Shrub refers to George W. Bush, as in a shrub is a small bush. I hope you get the pun. Now for the word apologist: a*pol*o*gist Pronunciation Key (-pl-jst) n. A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution. Source: The American Heritage(r) Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright (c) 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. So its an accurate description. Your rather ardent defense of George W. Bush (aka shrub) makes you an apologist. The insult is only in your mind. larry -- Larry C. Lyons ColdFusion/Web Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer EBStor.com 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 tel: (703) 393-7930 fax: (703) 393-2659 Web: http://www.ebstor.com http://www.pacel.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. -- > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:37 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: From the OMFG files > > > No, Larry, it is you who don't understand. > > So the "I bet" is not a judgment huh....maybe you should choose your > words more carefully. Try you might look at this list of statements, > one of them might apply to you. Also, what about calling me a "shrub > apologist" is that not a judgment. Or do you have difficulty > determining what the meaning of is is. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:30 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: From the OMFG files > > You do not understand then. I have not made any judgements or ascribed > any > blame regarding anyone on this list. I suggested that you > look at these > beliefs and see if they apply to you. If you have read that material, > you > would see where I am coming from, these beliefs are endemic, to some > extent > we all endorse one or more of these beliefs. > > I am not saying one way or another whether any of these beliefs > specifically > apply or not. For me to go further would be a violation of > professional > ethics. I can not and will not play psychologist here. I am not a > licensed > clinical psychologist. I can discuss my research, political opinions > etc. > But for me to attempt a specific analysis of someone with whom I'm > interacting with would be highly unethical. > > larry > > -- > Larry C. Lyons > ColdFusion/Web Developer > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > EBStor.com > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > tel: (703) 393-7930 > fax: (703) 393-2659 > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > http://www.pacel.com > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > -- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:20 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: From the OMFG files > > > > > > Larry, > > > > I'll read all this at lunch but would like to point out one > > thing that I > > saw in my cursory scan > > > > "I'm quite willing to be that you endorse many of these irrational > > beliefs." > > > > Now by saying that you are one giant hypocrite. Remember > > when I accused > > you of wearing blinders about Clinton. You exploded with, You don't > > know me...you can't stereotype me...yada yada yada. Well that > > statement > > you made seems to me you did just the same thing to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:12 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: From the OMFG files > > > > Kevin, > > > > First off to the CF-Community - this is a large note, really > > large. Its > > partially taken from my master's thesis and some material > scraped off > > the > > web. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:08 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: From the OMFG files > > > > > > > > > Larry, > > > > > > I suffer from bi-polar depression and no matter how > depressed I get, > > > which isn't very often as I have medication for it. But > > even before I > > > was diagnosed and took the medication I never felt the desire > > > to embrace > > > irrational beliefs. I just don't buy it, sorry. Just look > > > at any court > > > case where any type of mental disability or incapacity is > > > involved. The > > > defense has an expert on their side saying that it's a > > problem and the > > > prosecution has an expert saying that it's not. When it > > > comes to matter > > > of the mind, which "expert" do you believe? In this case, with my > > > personal experience, I don't buy the depression bit. > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > I look at the person's publications etc. In other words his > > professional > > reputation. I'd rather trust a Aaron Beck of SUNY rather > than someone > > with a > > terminal masters from a no-name bible college. > > > > Moreover some definitions are needed, I think that there is a > > disconnect > > between what you call irrational beliefs and what I use for > > the term. To > > me > > its a fairly operationally defined type of cognition. - btw the > > following > > is taken from > > http://www.scs.unt.edu/classes/RHAB/5300/RationalEmotiveBehavi > > orTherapy. > > html > > > > > > -- > > To start, our thinking, emoting and acting all interact together. > > Nothing is > > experienced in isolation. Emotion is said to have no single cause or > > result > > but can result from the senses, the stimulation of the > nervous system, > > thinking about something that has importance or calling up > > thoughts of a > > previous emotional experience. > > > > If you want to control the emotions, there are four major > > ways to do so. > > The > > first is by electric shock or with drugs. The second way to change > > behavior > > is to utilize another system such as physical movement or > variation in > > breathing. Emotional states and prejudices can be seen as motives to > > change. > > The last way is to use your thinking and exert control with your > > thoughts. > > > > The roots of maladjustment are Irrational Beliefs (iBs). These > > irrational > > beliefs significantly contribute to or "cause" emotional and > > behavioral > > disturbances. Dysfunctional, negative, or other > > self-defeating ideas can > > cause a person to be neurotic and disturbed. Irrational > Beliefs (iBs) > > are > > beliefs that are unrealistic, illogical, absolutist and held > > to tightly > > even > > when they can't be proven. In contrast, an adjusted person's > > thinking is > > logical and realistic most of the time. People who are less > > neurotic and > > self-defeating are also those who are flexible and not > > dogmatic in their > > thinking. Ellis (1994) hypothesized that emotionally > disturbed people > > commonly have a number of iBs and practically all of them arise from > > their > > taking a sensible preference or desire and raising it to a > grandiose, > > absolutist must or demand. Within the REBT framework, > people who hold > > the > > irrational demand that they absolutely must perform well at certain > > tasks > > and relationships often use poor thinking methods to confirm these > > ideas. > > People truly diagnosed as disturbed or maladjusted display similar > > ideas. > > > > When an undesirable or unfortunate activating event or adversity (A) > > occurs, > > two routes can be followed. A person experiencing the event > can choose > > to > > respond and develop a rational belief (rB) which is a belief that is > > self-helping or socially acceptable to the community as a > > whole. Others > > may > > respond to the activating event with (iBs). In both cases, > > there will be > > consequences (Cs). A pers! on with (iBs) may develop unhealthy > > consequences > > (Cs) such as depression. The opposite is true for the person who > > responds > > with (rBs) they may feel sorrow or regret but the (Cs) that > result are > > healthier for the person. > > > > The method of enhancing adjustment is to teach a person to > dispute his > > iBs > > and develop an effective new philosophy. Even when the > > activating event > > is a > > fatal illness, REBT techniques can be employed. It is > unlikely that an > > individual will be able to think rationally all the time. Even as > > children > > we are open to suggestion and we may easily take on > destructive ideas > > from > > our parents or from our culture. Additionally, we have a > strong innate > > tendency to take any strong desire and make it something > necessary to > > have. > > We also have innate and acquired self-defeating tendencies: > > we take our > > goals and desires and transform them into demands and commands. This > > tendency is both biological and socially learned. In the > early days of > > humanity, this may have been a life-preserving tool. Early > > humans had to > > ward off dangerous encounters. Though therapy can't change > > all the ideas > > we > > are exposed to, it can help us think more effectively. > > -- > > Generally these beliefs include Black and white thinking > (absolutism); > > Filtering; Over-generalisation; Mind-reading; > > Fortune-telling; Emotional > > reasoning and Personalising. Here are some typical > Irrational Beliefs > > (your > > milage may vary). > > > > -- > > I need love and approval from those significant to me - and I > > must avoid > > disapproval from any source). > > > > To be worthwhile as a person I must achieve, succeed at > whatever I do, > > and > > make no mistakes. Perfectionism > > > > People should always do the right thing. When they behave > obnoxiously, > > unfairly or selfishly, they must be blamed and punished. > > > > Things must be the way I want them to be, oth-erwise life will be > > intolerable. > > > > My unhappiness is caused by things that are out-side my control - so > > there > > is little I can do to feel any better. > > > > I must worry about things that could be danger-ous, unpleasant or > > frightening - otherwise they might happen. > > > > I can be happier by avoiding life's difficulties, > unpleasantness, and > > responsibilities. > > > > Everyone needs to depend on someone stronger than themselves. > > > > Events in my past are the cause of my problems - and they > continue to > > influence my feelings and behaviours now. > > > > I should become upset when other people have problems, and > > feel unhappy > > when > > they're sad. > > > > I shouldn't have to feel discomfort and pain - I can't > stand them and > > must > > avoid them at all costs. > > > > Every problem should have an ideal solution - and it's > > intolerable when > > one > > can't be found. > > -- > > > > Now given that, in the research I've conducted, we have used > > standardized > > tests that looked the degree of endorsement of irrational > beliefs. We > > found > > significant relationships between the number and magnitude of the > > irrational > > beliefs and high levels of depression, anxiety, and > generalized anger > > among > > others. Those people with high levels of depression, anxiety, > > generalized > > anger etc tended to endorse more of these irrational beliefs > > that those > > who > > were not depressed, anxious etc. These relationships were > very similar > > for > > university student samples, participants from community > > colleges, office > > workers, people working in industrial plants, hospitals and > > residents of > > senior care homes. These relationships held up across considerably > > different > > samples, which suggests to me that similar relationships > > would be found > > if > > we were able to assess the entire population rather than these > > independent > > samples. > > > > In terms of a psychotherapy, REBT has been found to be very > effective, > > as > > evidenced by literally hundreds of studies (see Lyons & Woods, 1990, > > online > > version at http://www.lyonsmorris.com/maret/RETstudy1.htm). > It is also > > been > > found to be effective when combined with psychotropic medication for > > bipolar > > conditions as well. However I do not have my references here > > at work so > > I'll > > have to get back to you on that one. > > > > Now given that very long winded explanation, I'm quite willing to be > > that > > you endorse many of these irrational beliefs. However it would be > > unethical > > of me to explore this further in public. Moreover I let my > training in > > this > > area lapse years ago, so it would not be appropriate to go > > any further. > > What > > I can say is look over those 12 self-statements and > consider how often > > you > > say them, or something similar to yourself. Then look at > how many you > > endorsed, the results may be quite surprising. > > > > regards, > > > > larry > > > > -- > > Larry C. Lyons > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > EBStor.com > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > http://www.pacel.com > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > -- > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Your ad could be here. 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