Larry, I'll read all this at lunch but would like to point out one thing that I saw in my cursory scan
"I'm quite willing to be that you endorse many of these irrational beliefs." Now by saying that you are one giant hypocrite. Remember when I accused you of wearing blinders about Clinton. You exploded with, You don't know me...you can't stereotype me...yada yada yada. Well that statement you made seems to me you did just the same thing to me. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:12 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: From the OMFG files Kevin, First off to the CF-Community - this is a large note, really large. Its partially taken from my master's thesis and some material scraped off the web. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:08 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: From the OMFG files > > > Larry, > > I suffer from bi-polar depression and no matter how depressed I get, > which isn't very often as I have medication for it. But even before I > was diagnosed and took the medication I never felt the desire > to embrace > irrational beliefs. I just don't buy it, sorry. Just look > at any court > case where any type of mental disability or incapacity is > involved. The > defense has an expert on their side saying that it's a problem and the > prosecution has an expert saying that it's not. When it > comes to matter > of the mind, which "expert" do you believe? In this case, with my > personal experience, I don't buy the depression bit. > > Kevin > I look at the person's publications etc. In other words his professional reputation. I'd rather trust a Aaron Beck of SUNY rather than someone with a terminal masters from a no-name bible college. Moreover some definitions are needed, I think that there is a disconnect between what you call irrational beliefs and what I use for the term. To me its a fairly operationally defined type of cognition. - btw the following is taken from http://www.scs.unt.edu/classes/RHAB/5300/RationalEmotiveBehaviorTherapy. html -- To start, our thinking, emoting and acting all interact together. Nothing is experienced in isolation. Emotion is said to have no single cause or result but can result from the senses, the stimulation of the nervous system, thinking about something that has importance or calling up thoughts of a previous emotional experience. If you want to control the emotions, there are four major ways to do so. The first is by electric shock or with drugs. The second way to change behavior is to utilize another system such as physical movement or variation in breathing. Emotional states and prejudices can be seen as motives to change. The last way is to use your thinking and exert control with your thoughts. The roots of maladjustment are Irrational Beliefs (iBs). These irrational beliefs significantly contribute to or "cause" emotional and behavioral disturbances. Dysfunctional, negative, or other self-defeating ideas can cause a person to be neurotic and disturbed. Irrational Beliefs (iBs) are beliefs that are unrealistic, illogical, absolutist and held to tightly even when they can't be proven. In contrast, an adjusted person's thinking is logical and realistic most of the time. People who are less neurotic and self-defeating are also those who are flexible and not dogmatic in their thinking. Ellis (1994) hypothesized that emotionally disturbed people commonly have a number of iBs and practically all of them arise from their taking a sensible preference or desire and raising it to a grandiose, absolutist must or demand. Within the REBT framework, people who hold the irrational demand that they absolutely must perform well at certain tasks and relationships often use poor thinking methods to confirm these ideas. People truly diagnosed as disturbed or maladjusted display similar ideas. When an undesirable or unfortunate activating event or adversity (A) occurs, two routes can be followed. A person experiencing the event can choose to respond and develop a rational belief (rB) which is a belief that is self-helping or socially acceptable to the community as a whole. Others may respond to the activating event with (iBs). In both cases, there will be consequences (Cs). A pers! on with (iBs) may develop unhealthy consequences (Cs) such as depression. The opposite is true for the person who responds with (rBs) they may feel sorrow or regret but the (Cs) that result are healthier for the person. The method of enhancing adjustment is to teach a person to dispute his iBs and develop an effective new philosophy. Even when the activating event is a fatal illness, REBT techniques can be employed. It is unlikely that an individual will be able to think rationally all the time. Even as children we are open to suggestion and we may easily take on destructive ideas from our parents or from our culture. Additionally, we have a strong innate tendency to take any strong desire and make it something necessary to have. We also have innate and acquired self-defeating tendencies: we take our goals and desires and transform them into demands and commands. This tendency is both biological and socially learned. In the early days of humanity, this may have been a life-preserving tool. Early humans had to ward off dangerous encounters. Though therapy can't change all the ideas we are exposed to, it can help us think more effectively. -- Generally these beliefs include Black and white thinking (absolutism); Filtering; Over-generalisation; Mind-reading; Fortune-telling; Emotional reasoning and Personalising. Here are some typical Irrational Beliefs (your milage may vary). -- I need love and approval from those significant to me - and I must avoid disapproval from any source). To be worthwhile as a person I must achieve, succeed at whatever I do, and make no mistakes. Perfectionism People should always do the right thing. When they behave obnoxiously, unfairly or selfishly, they must be blamed and punished. Things must be the way I want them to be, oth-erwise life will be intolerable. My unhappiness is caused by things that are out-side my control - so there is little I can do to feel any better. I must worry about things that could be danger-ous, unpleasant or frightening - otherwise they might happen. I can be happier by avoiding life's difficulties, unpleasantness, and responsibilities. Everyone needs to depend on someone stronger than themselves. Events in my past are the cause of my problems - and they continue to influence my feelings and behaviours now. I should become upset when other people have problems, and feel unhappy when they're sad. I shouldn't have to feel discomfort and pain - I can't stand them and must avoid them at all costs. Every problem should have an ideal solution - and it's intolerable when one can't be found. -- Now given that, in the research I've conducted, we have used standardized tests that looked the degree of endorsement of irrational beliefs. We found significant relationships between the number and magnitude of the irrational beliefs and high levels of depression, anxiety, and generalized anger among others. Those people with high levels of depression, anxiety, generalized anger etc tended to endorse more of these irrational beliefs that those who were not depressed, anxious etc. These relationships were very similar for university student samples, participants from community colleges, office workers, people working in industrial plants, hospitals and residents of senior care homes. These relationships held up across considerably different samples, which suggests to me that similar relationships would be found if we were able to assess the entire population rather than these independent samples. In terms of a psychotherapy, REBT has been found to be very effective, as evidenced by literally hundreds of studies (see Lyons & Woods, 1990, online version at http://www.lyonsmorris.com/maret/RETstudy1.htm). It is also been found to be effective when combined with psychotropic medication for bipolar conditions as well. However I do not have my references here at work so I'll have to get back to you on that one. Now given that very long winded explanation, I'm quite willing to be that you endorse many of these irrational beliefs. However it would be unethical of me to explore this further in public. Moreover I let my training in this area lapse years ago, so it would not be appropriate to go any further. What I can say is look over those 12 self-statements and consider how often you say them, or something similar to yourself. Then look at how many you endorsed, the results may be quite surprising. regards, larry -- Larry C. Lyons ColdFusion/Web Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer EBStor.com 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 tel: (703) 393-7930 fax: (703) 393-2659 Web: http://www.ebstor.com http://www.pacel.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
