On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
>
> Innocent until proven guilty applies until someone shows reasonable signs of
> an illegal action. My example was decided by the police as being a

I get it-- two white boys in an expensive looking car deserved to be
pulled over if they're driving in Harlem, or whatever.

Same deal for a couple of black boys driving an inexpensive looking
car in Vale, or whatever.

You /seriously/ don't get how bad of an example (yet logical sounding,
on it's face) that is?

> reasonable sign of a drug buy. Note the term reasonable. To bring it into
> the conversation, being Muslim or looking like a Muslim alone is not a
> reasonable sign of anything. Being a Neo-Nazi alone is not a reasonable sign
> of anything. Being Amish alone is not a reasonable sign of anything. BUT
> being of a specific group and doing things that are outside the norm for
> that group which is also inside the norm for crimes associated with the
> group IS a reasonable sign to be examined.
> 1. Amish, Muslim, Neo-Nazi - people
> 2. Hanging out outside a synagogue multiple times at strange hours -
> non-standard actions for people
> 3. SOME members of the group are associated with violence against the
> location where they are hanging out - reasonable suspicion
> The Amish do not fulfill part 3. The other 2 do fulfill part 3. Part 2 alone
> may warrant at least a second look for anyone but when combined with part
> 3...

Guess it depends on your idea of "examined".

> Person: So Michael, why are you down on Muslims here? Can't they hang out by
> a synagogue at 1am every night? You're judging them as Muslims.
> Michael: do you have a reason to be hanging out by a synagogue at 1am in the
> night? You do? OK, but I'll be suspicious of you being there almost as much
> as I would of someone stereotypically related to desecration of synagogues.
> Person: You're stereotyping. That's bad. Naughty Michael. We don't do that
> in our polite society. Don't assume guilt, everyone's innocent until
> convicted of a crime. alledged crime
> Michael: What can I say, I'm a paranoid who thinks that there are people out
> there who hate me and are willing to hurt/kill me.

One of my favorite movies has a quote, and while the movie itself it
totally un-related to this discussion (Ballroom Dancing), the quote, I
think, is quite on point:

"Don't live your life in fear"

And if you must, /please/ don't try to make me live in fear too.

Life is too short.

-- 
Others indeed may talk, and write, and fight about liberty, and make
an outward pretence to it; but the free-thinker alone is truly free.
George Berkeley

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