I believe they are concerned about the civil liberties portion as well as the effectiveness issue. If I am reading them correctly. I don't think anyone is saying that if a man in a turban rushes at you with a knife shouting about Allah that you should not consider yourself in danger and take measures.
My point at least (I will let Denny and Michael speak for themselves) is that what is really important here is the knife and the running and perhaps the shouting; not the turban and the Allah. If you are only looking for turbans and Allah then you miss the IRA bomber (though they seem to mainly prey on Ireland) as well as the McVeighs. You also wind up detouring planes because they are carrying well-known Muslim peace advocates, and looking stupid. Apart from the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, which nobody here seems to particularly care about, to my regret.The looking stupid part is important as well -- at least part of the problem is the perception that the US doesn't get it, doesn't want to get it, and never will. "You just can't reason with such people." Sound familiar? On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > > Then maybe we just misunderstood each other. > > However, Michael Grant and Denstar seem to want it excluded. If that is > incorrect, then it would seem I misunderstood them as well. > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Dana <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> ::eyeroll:: and I never said it should be excluded from any profile >> because it might offend some people. I said behavior is a far more >> useful criterion than ethnicity or gender. >> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > I never said we need to 'focus' on 'Muslim' but, I donl't think it should >> be >> > excluded from any profile becasue it might offend some people. >> > >> > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Dana <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> And I am saying that if you focus too much on "Muslim" then >> >> >> >> a) you harass a lot of innocents, possibly unconstitutionally >> >> depending on how it is done >> >> b) you miss the really dangerous and organized terrorists who are >> >> smart enough not to wave red flags. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Wow, you truly are that dense. >> >> > >> >> > Once again.....'Muslim' would be one piece in a much larger puzzle. >> One >> >> > thing drunk drivers do is have difficulty in maintaining a constant >> >> speed, >> >> > does this mean that everyone who has difficulty maintaining a constant >> >> speed >> >> > is driving drunk? No. Do I think a police officer should pull someone >> >> over >> >> > SOLELY because they cannot maintain a constant speed? No. But if the >> >> driver >> >> > cannot maintain a constant speed and is swerving a lot in their lane >> and >> >> > exhibiting OTHER behaviors of a drunk driver, than I think they should >> >> pull >> >> > the driver over and investigate. Could be the driver is tired, or >> >> slightly >> >> > distracted or drunk. >> >> > >> >> > Do I think a person should be investigated SOLELY for being a Muslim? >> I >> >> > think I have answered that before, but I will answer again...NO. But, >> if >> >> the >> >> > person is Muslim,and exhibits other behaviors similar to those of know >> >> > terrorists do I think they should be looked at? Yes. Is that really so >> >> hard >> >> > to understand? >> >> > >> >> > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Michael Grant <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Just to be clear Scott. You are drawing a parallel between appearing >> to >> >> >> drive drunk (a crime) and appearing Muslim (not a crime)? >> >> >> Or is appearing Muslim the same as appearing to be a terrorist? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Wire taps are a far stretch from a traffic stop. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Yea, that makes sense, the police are the problem, not the >> criminals. >> >> >> The >> >> >> > criminal has the right to not be bothered by the police, but the >> >> people >> >> >> he >> >> >> > could injure or kill..meh..their rights do not seem to matter as >> much. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:54 AM, denstar <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > You still did not answer the question. I will ask again. >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > If a police officer sees a driver exhibiting behavior >> consistent >> >> with >> >> >> > > those >> >> >> > > > who are driving drunk, even if this particular driver is not >> >> breaking >> >> >> > any >> >> >> > > > laws, should the police officer investigate further by pulling >> the >> >> >> > driver >> >> >> > > > over? >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > Its a 'yes' or 'no' question. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > I'm sorry, I thought my comments made it obvious as to which way >> I >> >> >> swing. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > The answer is an emphatic 'No'. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > This protects not only the citizen, but the officer as well. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > I'm pretty sure I recall you being upset at people getting off >> due >> >> to >> >> >> > > technicalities, neh? >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > It probably sounds as crazy as letting KKK people have parades, >> but >> >> >> > > there you go-- one of the prices we pay for being such a bad-ass >> >> >> > > country. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > I mean, think about your question: Should you be stopped by an >> >> >> > > officer of the law if you haven't broken any laws? >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > "Show me your papers" used to be, well, associated with lameness. >> I >> >> >> > > know in this Brave New World, that so long as you're not doing >> >> >> > > anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. Right? Who cares if >> The >> >> >> > > Man taps your phone? You have something to hide or something? >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > I think a lot of people have lost sight of the big picture. It's >> >> sad. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > As I've said before, I'd rather be "free" than "safe". >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > -- >> >> >> > > A mind at liberty to reflect on its own observations, if it >> produce >> >> >> > > nothing useful to the world, seldom fails of entertainment to >> >> itself. >> >> >> > > George Berkeley >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:291775 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
