On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 1:38 AM, denstar <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > It ties into the roadblock discussion. I don't see how. > > > When the person /breaks the law/. Probable Cause is a hairy deal, and > it's gotten way too loose for my tastes. > > *There has to be a reason to be stopped* > > Of course, in real life, it's easy enough to just say "he changed > lanes without signaling", or any number of things. And if the person > is really fucked up, they're going to make a mistake long before they > "suddenly" cruise into opposing traffic. You seem to be agreeing with me here. If a person exhibits behavior consistent with someone who is driving drunk that would be reasonable cause to pull over the driver and investigate further...which is pretty much what I have been saying. > > > >> I actually ranted about this, last time I was stopped at one-- *not > >> once* was I asked if I'd been drinking. What is the point of these > >> stops, again? > That goes along with the 'Has your suitcase been with you since you packed it" - type questions you used to get asked when you checked baggage at the airport. Who would say "yes" to that? Police are trained to look for certain behaviors at these checkpoints. Sorry, again, I see nothing wrong with them. > > Again with the "already found guilty" -- the "guilty" part is a key > bit to this whole idea, and how people are arrested is a *huge* part > of that. A previous statement you made seemed to indicate that innocent until proven guilty implies that you cannot be questioned/investigated by the police until you have been proven guilty. Being pulled over by a cop for a traffic violation is no different than a detective showing up at a murder suspect's house to question them. > > > "An officer of the law"... what do you think that means? What I'm > saying is that police cannot stop people for no reason. It's just how > the system works. Or doesn't work. See, it's sorta a check/balance > of power, because we know that no system is perfect, but we do what we > can to prevent abuse. And I have agreed with you on this (several times) but again, if hey are exhibiting behavior consistent with those who have committed crime in the past, then the police have a reasonable cause to investigate further. Do I think some cops abuse this? Absolutely. But most of them do not. Almost seems like you have the same attitude towards cops as Gruss does towards Muslims...interesting. > > > I asked you to hold this thought: > "I am not advocating that people be randomly stopped" > > because you then go on to say > "I do not see anything wrong with drunk driver checkpoints" > > Do you not see the conflict between those two ideas? > > "So long as only the suspicious looking people are asked for their > papers", is still a little too close to what went down with the > Germans around WWII for my comfort. > > And again, by obeying the law (having a legitimate, legal reason to > pull someone over (one that will hold up in court)), this protects the > Officer, and makes it more likely that the "guilty" person will be > /found guilty by a jury of peers/, or however that whole deal goes. > :-) Let me ask you this, do you ever fly? Have you ever crossed from the US into Canada or Mexico or back in again? Doesn't EVERYONE have to go through the security checkpoint? Why do you not rage against that machine? If its OK to check everyone getting on a plane or crossing the border, why would it not be OK to check every one on the road? > > > I get the argument, and I get the emotion, but I'm saying that I would > rather be a nation of laws, than a nation of the king (re: that > wikipedia link). > > -- > Many things, for aught I know, may exist, whereof neither I nor any > other man hath or can have any idea or notion whatsoever. > Geor > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:291836 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
