On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 2:52 PM, denstar <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > It's a lazy, and in my opinion, unconstitutional way to try to catch > "bad people" -- it also generates a *lot* of revenue for The State. > > Those things are especially bad in combination. > > /me takes a picture of Scott's license plate, tapes it over his own, > and revs engine. =] Your comparison still does not make sense. Are you going to wear a 'Scott' mask at a DWI checkpoint in hopes that the HUMANS there will be fooled? I think the cameras are a dumb idea, I do not think DWI checkpoints are. > > > But in my example, a law has been broken *before* the person is pulled > over. > > A slight, but quite important, difference. IMO. I asked you straight up, 'if a driver was exhibiting behavior similar to that of someone driving drunk, should the police pull them over and investigate further' and you replied 'No' and then talked about 'innocent until proven guilty' > > > Either you think randomly stopping people and asking them for their > papers is o.k., or you don't. > > Would randomly searching people's homes be o.k. as well, in your book? > Randomly tapping phones is o.k.? > > "So long as you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear" type of > deal? I honestly do not think we will ever agree on this. I do not view DWI checkpoints as 'random searches' or a violation of anyone's rights. I know for a fact the dates, times and locations of DWI checkpoints in NJ are announced ahead of time and some sites publicize the info even more - http://snurl.com/dvofb . Kind of takes the 'randomness' out of it in my mind. > > > Ah, see, "a traffic violation" is a bit different than, say, being > white in a predominantly brown neighborhood. > > I'm railing against pulling people over before they have done anything > wrong. > > Innocent until proven guilty means that the burden of proof is on the > law, not the individual. > > Look it up, it's a wonderful aspect of most enlightened societies. Or > at least ours. =) > I've had the 80/20 experience-- 80% of the police I've dealt with were > dicks. It's a tough job, but that's no excuse. I should note that > much of the bad experiences were because the officer had > preconceptions. > > But if you think two white boys driving an expensive car in a "ghetto" > is a crime, worthy of pulling them over-- something is terribly wrong! Right, but you seem to want to handcuff (pun intended) the police from investigating suspicious behavior until there is more 'proof'. How can there be more proof if they are not allowed to investigate? Kind of a catch 22. I am sorry, 2 white guys driving a Ferrari in a predominantly black and/or poor neighborhood are most likely 1) lost or b) up to no good. In either case, a cop doing some further investigation is a good thing in my mind. What you do not seem to understand is that police work is not easy. Imagine going to work every day knowing that just about everyone you will encounter despises you, ridicules you or questions everything you do or don't do (or any combination of the above). Most cops I know are good people trying to do a difficult job as best they could. Not sure if you are aware, but traffic stops are one of the most dangerous situations for cops (It is often said that traffic stops and domestic disputes are the most dangerous). Keep that in mind next time a cop pulls you over. As fearful as you might be of him, he is of you. > > > Since a lot of crime is done by non-whites, wouldn't the fact that > someone is non-white be "consistent" with criminal behavior? Really, a lot of crime is done by non-whites? That sounds an awful lot like 'a lot of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims'. A statement that people in this thread seemed to take offense to. > > > Just flying *inside* the US isn't really fun anymore, and I don't feel > much safer for all the hoopla. > > It's like we're giving good, law-abiding passengers anal probes, while > all the bad folk need to do is sit at the end of a runway with a bag > full of pigeons or some-such. > > But it makes some types of people feel safer, seeing all that > busy-work, and thus... =) I do not think it makes us a whole lot safer either, but it does make some people feel safer. Which just may be enough, most times, to make the situation safer. > > > My whole argument is that, well... equality is pretty tits. mmmmm......tits > > > -- > That neither our thoughts, nor passions, nor ideas formed by the > imagination, exist without the mind, is what every body will allow. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:291858 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
