> > I think the Christian religious leaders of the past would rape the > women, torture the men, and then kill them all so I guess I don't hold > their opinion in as high as a regard as you do. >
So your history skips right to the corrupt Catholic church of the Dark Ages... nice. I was referring to those "religious leaders" of the 20th century that Larry was making mention of. Stay in the same timeline please, keep your feet and hands in the car at all times and be sure to secure all loose objects while the car is in motion, thank you. > So, assuming you're a Christian, what did Jesus say about same-sex > marriage? Please tell me in his own words, no translations. What > Aramaic words did Jesus have to say about same-sex marriage? > You know as well as I that is an unanswerable in the way you have phrased it. First off, the best resource I can go back to is the Textus Receptus. Secondly, so long as we stick to the canonized Bible, we have the words of Christ as recorded by the four gospel writers and those letters recorded from John, James, Peter and Paul. Yet in those words I can give you some key passages: In Matthew 19, Jesus is debating divorce with the Phrases, the "masters of the law" during his day from what they've been explained to me. Here's a translated version... if you want to read the TR, go to http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=19 and click on the "C" link next to each verse. (3) The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? (4) And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Here He is talking about heterosexual marriage. Why not homosexual? Where does He say, "for this cause a man shall leave his father and cleave to his lover?" He doesn't. But you wanted original text - for the sake of brevity, let's just look at the fourth and fifth verses. The word "read" the the first one that pops out to me. The TR has the greek as anaginÅskÅ. This word according to Thayer translates both as "read" and "to distinguish between, to recognise, to know accurately, to acknowledge." Also, the word "not" (have ye not read) is "ou", a version of not that expects an affirmative answer. So the rulers of the day knew just as well as Jesus that heterosexual marriages were ordained in the Bible. The same can not be said for same-sex relationships. Simply put, Jesus did not say that homosexuality was "okay." He took the accepted moral standard of the day that such activity was not accepted. It should also be pointed out that while He dined with tax collectors, walked with the lepers, healed the blind and made the lame walk, it is not mentioned where he made special provisions for eunuchs. Why do I bring this up? It's part of the same chapter so I might as well reference it: (11) But he said unto them, All [men] cannot receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given. (12) For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it]. Gay rights activists all 'round the world use this passage to say, "See! Jesus says that there *are* gays in the world." Tradition might seem to speak to this was well, since the concept of a eunuch is not so much a castrated person but rather someone who was born with a disinterest in the opposite sex. Where Jesus does not go with this statement is to say that eunuchs cavorting with each other in sexual fantasies is acceptable. Actually, He says, "some folks aren't going to get this." What he doesn't say is, "and they're okay too." In the Canonized scripture, Moses and Jesus aren't the only people that said something about homosexuality. Oh yeah, Moses is the one that is credited with the Law, so you can ask what he said in Hebrew but I'll leave it for now. Paul mentions sexual immorality on several occasions, including Romans 1:24-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10, the last two passages containing the word arsenokoitÄs is used, which translates to "one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual." A loving light is not shined upon them in any case. Does Jesus say that homosexuals exist? Certainly. Does he condone homosexuality? Not on your life. It was not an accepted practice in His day and while He went out of His way to show love and compassion, He didn't throw the closet door open and say, "hey guys/gals, come on out!" Sorry to sermonize this but you asked for my interpretation... and yes, this is the way I write and deliver my sermons, too, when I am asked to preach. As far as abortion is concerned, that's the half-Catholic in me coming out... I'll stand with the Pope on that one. And Larry, regarding my "lumping together" of stereotypes, follow the money when it comes to large dollar donations in the 2008 races and you'll see a lot of money going to the left from those groups. Hatton ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? 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