"Hey man, theoretically *we* control the government.  Choice is in our
power, if we care to exercise that power."

Theoretically.  And, the citizen never give congress positive approval
ratings, yet for some reason, 90% of incumbents win reelections.  Go figure.



"I remember a lot of folk saying that going into debt for the Iraq war was
justified. I was (and still am) down for Afghanistan, but not Iraq."

I wasn't opposed to either.  I was fore spending 10 years in each though.  I
am not sure nation building is something our country can afford to do or
should do.


"Yes, but the government makes it so even little, 'poor' people can affect
great change."

How so?  At the polls?   The poor don't even vote.  When they do, it
straight ticket for the ideology they have been duped into believe will
serve them best.


"I dislike relying on the top 1% to 'do what's right' more than the
government."

I d





'"If' fraud is discovered.  There's a lot more fraud prevention stuff in
place in the government."

"If" should be "When".  Part of the "huge" savings to pay for health care
deform is to come from cleaning up fraud in medicare.  Recently, CA banned
the use of its state ran welfare ATM cards in Casino's and strip clubs.
It's going to happen.  The bigger the bureaucracy, the more it's going to
happen.


"The VA *has* to release stuff that private hospitals don't.  For instance."
Great.


"If wishes were fishes.  That's not how it works currently."

No, transparency isn't the norm.  It's not a pipe dream though.  Some states
have passed transparency laws.  In the 1990's, congress tried to pass a
transparency in Unions bill.


"And how can the government say 'we're spending 3 bill on a black-ops type
deal'?"

Come on man.  Black ops don't even need tax money.  They make all the money
they need by selling drugs in the inner cities.


"We have the *right* to force it to do so.  'We' are in charge of it".

Technically, we are in charge of it.  Alas, we're stupid.  We keep elected
people from the same damn political class.



"I don't think we should have that right with private stuff, so much."

Yes, there isn't much we could do the Ford Foundation.  It's probably ran
off of a trust fund.  However, I can directly effect organizations I
contribute to.



"That wasn't my point.  It only takes one person to affect *tremendous*
change, as proven time and time again."

Yes, it can happen.  One person can make a change.  Who was the last?  MLK?



"A one penny tax "makes" like, some far out amount of money.  If you could
pitch in a penny, and end world hunger (contrived example) vs. contributing
hundreds of dollars and only "ending" hunger for a few families..."

Yes, if every penny that was donated went to feeding the hungry.  After
creating the bureaucracy to administer the fund, spending millions to study
the problem, taking countless fact finding missions to the resort areas, and
dining on 5* food, there wouldn't be much left.




"We don't give a damn.  Don't sugar coat it.  The government isn't some
entity that we have no control over."

Again, you're right.  We choose not to do anything about it.  Maybe Thomas
Jefferson was right:

I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as
necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful
rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of
the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should
render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions
as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound
health of government.



"It's fun to blame stuff, and people, but hopefully you hold the Truth close
to your heart. The 'problem' is "us".  =)"

Yes, we are the problem.  And we are the solution.  The government is not
the solution.  It cannot and will not fix itself.



"Yup, I agree.  Focusing on the defense budget was a bit of fishing, and a
bit of common sense.  Where is *most* of our money spent?"

Fact check this if time
permits<http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258>
:

Defense and Security:  20%
Social Security:  20%
Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP:  21%  (It's not Erik Estrada - it's the
Children's Health Insurance Program)
Safety Net Program:  14%
Interest on Federal Debt:  6%
Federal Retiree and Veterans Benefits:  7%
Research:  2%
Transportation Infrastructure:  3%
Education:  3%
Other:  5%




"'Redistributing' wealth is a big part of government's job.  Pitch a penny
== build a road, neh?"

Yes, in terms of funding a national defense and such.  The founding fathers
were adamant in their desire to prevent taking from those who have and
giving to those who do not.



> "You sound like a real conservative."
> I like to think of myself as a conservative libertarian.

"I like it.  =)"

Or I am slowly becoming an anarchist.


"I know, I know, but somehow Republicans have usurped the title of
"conservative".  It's a travesty."

Yes, it is.  It's hard to even argue that Republicans are conservative.  I
guess there are conservative when compared to Democrats, but what the hell
does that mean?

And the Democrats have usurped "Civil Rights"



"No I.  I pay all kinds of taxes for crap I'll never use, nor benefit from
directly (or even indirectly for a grip of stuff, probably, but it is a
tangled web)."

Amen.  And a lot of the stuff I'll never use doesn't bother me.  Then,
certain things get under my skin.


"I was fully expecting to pay more taxes when we started spending more than
we were pulling in (again)."

Expecting is different than wanting to pay higher taxes.


"I'd pay a few pennies more to get universal health care-- hell, a few
bucks, even.  At least we can, if we so choose, legitimately, force some
kind of transparency."

If it were only a few more pennies and the quality of care would not be
diminished, I think we all would.



"I don't think we really care that much tho.  We're decent people generally,
but not quite "awake" in general, if you ask me."

Yes.  We are a very decent people.  Yes, most are asleep and have been for
years.


J

-

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not. I think myself that we have
more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on
the labor of the industrious. - Thomas Jefferson


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