Most people don't use language precisely and most people have no particular reason to make a distinction between Gender and Sex. Those that do have a reason to make a distinction typically do it along the lines of how I laid out (currently). Not saying you are right or wrong, just trying to provide some useful input on how the language around these issues is used by those who really care about them and talk about them a great deal.
I'm still not going to get into my opinion about the parents behavior but I will point out that they didn't say that they weren't telling their children that they are male, female, etc. In fact, they have told their older children the physical sex of the baby in question. They just haven't told people outside their family. Presumably the child in question will know their own physical sex as there is no indication that the parents aren't teaching their children what body parts are. This isn't a question about what the child/family knows about his/her self, the kids know. The issue is about what other people know and the "experiment" is about the relationship about the gender (perceived by other people) instead of sex (other people don't get to see the genitals as a rule) and how they are treated as a result. I still think that there is plenty to discuss and even strongly disapprove of but I do think that the discussion should be placed in the proper context. Judah On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > > Not sure I agree with the semantics here. > > I do not agree that 'gender' is a social constructor identity, at > least not ay more than 'sex; would be - especially when you consider > the fact that if you asked people their 'gender' and huge majority > would answer 'male' or 'female'. > > The word 'boy' is commonly used to describe a young male. The word > 'girl' is commonly used to describe a young female. Along the same > lines 'man' is commonly used to describe an adult male and 'woman' is > commonly used to describe an adult female. > > I understand that not every one fits into this 'mold', but I cannot > see how by not telling their children they are a male, female, boy, > girl, etc, that these people are accomplishing anything. > > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I've been largely avoiding this topic because it is really complicated >> but a lot of the problems come up because people use language >> differently. Here is a brief rundown of how I currently understand the >> language being used within communities that focus on gender and sexual >> non-normative setups: >> >> Sex is physical. Male and female are sexual labels. People who display >> primary or secondary sexual characteristics (primary being >> penis/vagina, secondary being breasts, facial hair, etc) of more than >> one sex or a blending of the sexes are generally referred to as >> Intersexed. >> >> Gender is a social construct, an identity. Boy, girl, etc are gender >> identities. People who don't feel that they fit into a particular >> gender role may consider themselves genderfluid. Those who have a >> gender identity that doesn't match their physical sex (a body >> dysmorphia) usually consider themselves transgendered. Many of those >> folks may consider sexual reassignment surgery to bring their physical >> sex into greater alignment with their gender identity. Others may be >> fine with the difference between their physical sex and their gender >> identity and consider the two largely separate. >> >> Then you layer on top of that sexual preference, a continuum of >> attraction from homosexual to heterosexual that takes into account, >> potentially, elements of both sex and gender on the part of each >> partner. >> >> As you can see, no part of it is very simple. For some people, things >> line up just right and everything fits in naturally. For others, not >> so much. >> >> Cheers, >> Judah >> >> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Medic <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Since when does castration involve removing his penis? >>> >>> Castration: You're doing it wrong. >>> >>> And why in the hell are you putting quotes around the word boy? It's not >>> "boy"... it's boy. Male and female aren't societal interpretations... they >>> are biological facts. Identifying with a zebra doesn't give you stripes. >>> >>> *rolls eyes* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Maureen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> So if a "boy' chooses to be castrated, does that make him a girl? >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Medic <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> So what does it mean to be a "boy"? >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > It means you have a penis. Has for millions of years. Will for millions >>>> > more. What that "means" to someone is irrelevant to fact that sentient >>>> > beings with a penis are male and those with vajayjay's are female. This >>>> > isn't a cultural perception, like one's idea of beauty or gender roles. >> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:338362 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
