Something else to note is that much of this flowery language is masonic in style and content.
Which also requires some belief in a creator. Making good men better... On Apr 4, 2013 4:40 PM, "LRS Scout" <[email protected]> wrote: > I think that TJ letters and writings contradict the man's position. I > think the state writings earlier argue againt his position at least as far > as athiesm > Franklin and Jefferson were likely agnostic but payed lip service and > homage to western christianity and philosophy. See the jefferson bible. > On Apr 4, 2013 4:35 PM, "Larry C. Lyons" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> There's an interesting essay by Eric Raymond that answers this. Its well >> worth reading the whole thing. >> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=312 >> >> Quoting from the essay: >> >> Religious conservatives are fond of replying by pointing excitedly at the >> references to "Nature's God", "Divine Providence", and the "Creator" in >> the >> Declaration of Independence. >> >> Raymond then quotes the relevant passages of the Declaration: >> >> When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to >> dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to >> assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to >> which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent >> respect >> to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes >> which impel them to the separation. >> >> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, >> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights; >> >> And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the >> protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our >> Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. >> >> Raymond then cites some other passages in Jefferson's writings where he >> displays as obvious hostility to Christianity. So Raymond asks, "Of what >> 'God', if not the Christian one, was Jefferson speaking?" He replies: >> >> The answer to this question -- which also explains the references in the >> Declaration of Independence -- is that Jefferson, like many intellectuals >> of his time, was a Deist. The "Creator" and "Nature's God" in the >> Declaration of Independence, and the God of Jefferson's altar, is not the >> intervening Christian God but the God of Deism. >> >> Deism was an early attempt to reconcile the mechanistic world-view arising >> from experimental science with religion. Deists believed in a remote sort >> of clockmaker-God who created the universe but then refrained from >> meddling >> in it afterwards. Deists explicitly rejected faith, revelation, religious >> doctrine, religious authority, and all existing religions. They held that >> humans could know the mind of God only through the study of nature; in >> many >> versions of Deist thinking, the mind of God was explicitly identified with >> the laws of nature. >> >> Thus "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God"; in Deist thought these >> concepts >> blurred together. The phrase "endowed by their Creator" could be rendered >> accurately as "endowed by Nature". In modern terms, this is an entirely >> naturalistic account of human rights. >> That's exactly right. Finally, Raymond notes: >> >> Jeffersons "altar of God" quote and the references in the Declaration of >> Independence are easy to misconstrue today because Deism did not long >> outlive the Founding Fathers. In their time it functioned as a sort of >> halfway house for intellectuals who rejected traditional religion but were >> unwilling to declare themselves atheists or agnostics. As the social risk >> of taking these positions decreased, Deism waned. >> >> So they were not referring to some dude in some cloud wearing a white >> sheet, Rather they were referring to the entirely naturalistic and >> mechanistic principles found in the world. A concept entirely compatible >> with skepticism. >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:21 PM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> > You are correct. I never implied they were. >> > >> > But they DID mention a Creator......it very specifically said our rights >> > are endowed by our CREATOR...not by us. So whether by God or by Nature, >> our >> > rights were endowed to us, we didn't create them ourselves. >> > >> -- >> Larry C. Lyons >> web: http://www.lyonsmorris.com/lyons >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/larryclyons >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:362409 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
