Who set up the native churches and why? On Apr 4, 2013 9:22 PM, "Larry C. Lyons" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Agnostic? No given some of his writings he'd be outdoing Christopher > HItchens and Richard Dawkins if he were alive today: > > "The priests of the different religious sects ... dread the advance of > science as witches do the approach of daylight, and scowl on the fatal > harbinger announcing the subdivision of the duperies on which they live." > -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820, > > "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. > He is always in alliance with the despot." - Thomas Jefferson > > The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme > Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the > fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. > -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 > > "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in > the Platonic mysticism that three are one and one is three, and yet, that > the one is not three, and the three not one.... But this constitutes the > craft, the power, and profits of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer > fabrics of fictitious religion, and they would catch no more flies." > -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams (August 22, 1813) > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:40 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think that TJ letters and writings contradict the man's position. I > > think the state writings earlier argue againt his position at least as > far > > as athiesm > > Franklin and Jefferson were likely agnostic but payed lip service and > > homage to western christianity and philosophy. See the jefferson bible. > > On Apr 4, 2013 4:35 PM, "Larry C. Lyons" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > There's an interesting essay by Eric Raymond that answers this. Its > well > > > worth reading the whole thing. > > > http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=312 > > > > > > Quoting from the essay: > > > > > > Religious conservatives are fond of replying by pointing excitedly at > the > > > references to "Nature's God", "Divine Providence", and the "Creator" in > > the > > > Declaration of Independence. > > > > > > Raymond then quotes the relevant passages of the Declaration: > > > > > > When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people > to > > > dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and > > to > > > assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to > > > which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent > > respect > > > to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes > > > which impel them to the separation. > > > > > > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created > equal, > > > that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights; > > > > > > And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the > > > protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our > > > Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. > > > > > > Raymond then cites some other passages in Jefferson's writings where he > > > displays as obvious hostility to Christianity. So Raymond asks, "Of > what > > > 'God', if not the Christian one, was Jefferson speaking?" He replies: > > > > > > The answer to this question -- which also explains the references in > the > > > Declaration of Independence -- is that Jefferson, like many > intellectuals > > > of his time, was a Deist. The "Creator" and "Nature's God" in the > > > Declaration of Independence, and the God of Jefferson's altar, is not > the > > > intervening Christian God but the God of Deism. > > > > > > Deism was an early attempt to reconcile the mechanistic world-view > > arising > > > from experimental science with religion. Deists believed in a remote > sort > > > of clockmaker-God who created the universe but then refrained from > > meddling > > > in it afterwards. Deists explicitly rejected faith, revelation, > religious > > > doctrine, religious authority, and all existing religions. They held > that > > > humans could know the mind of God only through the study of nature; in > > many > > > versions of Deist thinking, the mind of God was explicitly identified > > with > > > the laws of nature. > > > > > > Thus "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God"; in Deist thought these > > concepts > > > blurred together. The phrase "endowed by their Creator" could be > rendered > > > accurately as "endowed by Nature". In modern terms, this is an entirely > > > naturalistic account of human rights. > > > That's exactly right. Finally, Raymond notes: > > > > > > Jeffersons "altar of God" quote and the references in the Declaration > of > > > Independence are easy to misconstrue today because Deism did not long > > > outlive the Founding Fathers. In their time it functioned as a sort of > > > halfway house for intellectuals who rejected traditional religion but > > were > > > unwilling to declare themselves atheists or agnostics. As the social > risk > > > of taking these positions decreased, Deism waned. > > > > > > So they were not referring to some dude in some cloud wearing a white > > > sheet, Rather they were referring to the entirely naturalistic and > > > mechanistic principles found in the world. A concept entirely > compatible > > > with skepticism. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:21 PM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct. I never implied they were. > > > > > > > > But they DID mention a Creator......it very specifically said our > > rights > > > > are endowed by our CREATOR...not by us. So whether by God or by > Nature, > > > our > > > > rights were endowed to us, we didn't create them ourselves. > > > > > > > -- > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > web: http://www.lyonsmorris.com/lyons > > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/larryclyons > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:362428 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
