here's the ref for the article on the Inca and the Little Ice Age http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28353083/#.UjiG7Mb0OFg
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]>wrote: > Cool thing about these ice cores is that they track other stuff than just > CO2. Heavy metals etc. for instance. I'll have to dig up the reference (not > on my home laptop with the ref) but tracking these metals (in Greenland > mainly from the Rio Tinto mines in Spain which have been mining lead since > 600BC) trace very closely the rise and fall of the Roman, Byzantine and > Islamic empires. These results closely correlate with CO2 levels to such an > extent that you can see the influence on global climate change based on the > rise and fall of these empires. Moreover recent findings in the ice cores > from the Andes indicate that the fall of the Maya and Aztec civilizations > either hastened or caused the Little Ice Age in the 16th-17th centuries. > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Sam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> > On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > You keep going on and on about this, and how the Earth has not gotten >> > > warmer in the last 10 years or so. >> > > >> > > >> > 17 >> > >> >> 17? Then why do you keep saying 10? Either way, it is still not even a >> blink of the eye when compared to how long some of these cycles last. >> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > When you look at the history of the Earth, it is BILLIONS of years >> old. >> > > Over time, there have been periods of warming and periods of cooling. >> > > During a 'warming period' not every year would have been warmer than >> the >> > > previous. Not to mention that 10 years over the span of millions is >> not >> > > even the equivalent of the 'blink of an eye' >> > > >> > > >> > If you go back past 1880 then this particular warming cycle is cyclical >> and >> > not extraordinary. >> > >> >> I understand that. I thought I made that clear, but maybe not. My bad. >> >> > >> > >> > Take a look at this chart - >> > > >> > > >> > >> http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/IceCores1.gifit >> > > shows a relationship between CO2 levels and temperature. You can see >> > > that even during 'cooling trends' there were 'spikes' where it was >> > warmer, >> > > but the overall trend was that it was getting cooler. The same can be >> > said >> > > of the 'warming' periods and 'dips' where it was cooler, but the >> overall >> > > trend was that it was getting warmer. >> > > >> > > >> > Bad chart. First, CO2 lags behind temperature. Second, CO2 is lower now >> > than it was 100k and 300k years ago. I think you need a new source. >> > >> >> I won't argue over which one 'lags' as it is difficult to tell with any >> certainty from this graph. >> >> However, as for your assertion that CO2 levels are lower now than 100K & >> 300K years ago, you are wrong. Take a closer look. The red line (the CO2) >> is higher now than at any other time that we can tell. The highest in the >> past (about 330k years ago) was just over 300 ppmv, on the far right of >> the >> graph it is almost at 380 ppmv - lets call it 360 ppmv. Last time I >> checked, 360 is higher than 300. >> >> > >> > The thing that concerns me about that graph is the CO2 level at the far >> > > right of the graph. It is higher than at any other time that we can >> > > determine. I think it is a safe assumption that the big 'spike' on the >> > > right side of the graph is from humans. If you believe otherwise, you >> are >> > > foolish. >> > > >> > > The debate is what will happen because of those increased levels of >> CO2. >> > > And I don't think anyone can say with any level of certainty what will >> > > happen. But, if you think that we can continue to pump that mush C)2 >> int >> > > the atmosphere and not suffer some kind of side effects, you are also >> > being >> > > foolish. >> > > >> > >> > By closing "cleaner fuel burning factories" in the US so China and India >> > can do the manufacturing in "dirty" is foolish. Look at the US CO2 >> > emissions, they went way down without cap-n-trade laws yet those other >> > countries CO2 skyrocketed. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the clean >> > factories open? >> > >> >> Yep, it would. Not sure where you got the idea I thought otherwise >> considering what followed in my reply. >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > So, my feeling is, regardless of what will happen with the climate, >> we, >> > as >> > > a species, should be trying to reduce the levels of CO2. Why? Because >> we >> > > don't know what will happen. If we reduce our CO2 emissions and >> nothing >> > > would have happened anyway, the worst result is that we leave the >> planet >> > in >> > > better shape. If we do nothing about CO2 emissions and it will cause >> the >> > > problems that some predict, well, then we are screwed. >> > > >> > > >> > That's what the head of the IPCC said. So much for science. >> > >> >> I think it is better than your position: 'nothing bad is happening yet, so >> screw it, lets keep polluting the planet until something bad does happen, >> then we will deal with..if we can.' >> >> CO2 levels are higher than they ever have been that we can tell. No one >> knows with any certainty what will happen. You really think the best >> course >> of action is to do nothing and hope you are right? I would rather we do >> something and hope we are wrong. Everyone wins then...including the >> planet. >> >> > >> > I think I want ot error on the side of caution on this one. >> > > >> > > >> > And error you will. >> > >> > >> > >> I hope that the climate change proponents are wrong and that all the crap >> we pump into the atmosphere will have no effect on the planet at all. I >> think it best if we plan for the worst, while hoping for the best. >> >> What harm does reducing pollution do? I cannot think of a single con >> against it, only pros. >> >> -- >> Scott Stroz >> --------------- >> You can make things happen, you can watch things happen or you can wonder >> what the f*&k happened. - Cpt. Phil Harris >> >> http://xkcd.com/386/ >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:367150 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
