Ok,
Here's how I am thinking about it. The framers of our form of
government intended our last recourse against the federal government
descending into tyranny as the armed citizen. Revolt was almost an expected
part of the American ideal. Now by making it possible to loose your
citizenship, you would remove some of the impetus to revolt, if after your
do so, not only are you found guilty of the crime, but your no longer even a
citizen.
I also see your point. I mean tie it into dissent. Say I send
money (never would, but I should be able to) to a Palestinian refugee
organization, which unbeknownst to me is a front for some terrorist group.
So now I can go to prison and have my citizenship removed. Insane.
I hate to say it but I am seriously having to reconsider some of my
support for our current foreign affairs policies, in light of the decrease
of civil rights inside this country. What's funny is prior to Sept. 11th I
really had a positive outlook, politically. I mean support for libertarian
causes was way up. People were talking about privacy issues, the drug war,
property and tax issues. It really felt as though things were heading
towards a more free nation. Now things are becoming more restrictive every
day, and it's kind of scary.
Oh well, we'll see where it goes. Remember almost all of the old
un-American activities laws were either removed from the books, or ruled
unconstitutional. Maybe this will be just another bubble in history, and in
5 or 10 years things will get back on track.
Tim - the eternal optimist :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:49 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Patriot Act II
What also bothers me about this proposed law is the arbitrary nature of it.
If, for example, you contribute to an orphanage that may get some of its
money from a group declared as a terrorist organization, you can have your
citizenship removed for a charitable act. Moreover, since its the
government declaring a group a terrorist organization, what's to stop it
from declaring the opposing party a terrorist organization and
disenfranchising all those who voted for the opposition.
larry
At 07:46 AM 3/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>I wasn't aware that the constitution made any provision for removing your
>citizenship. I mean how can you even do that? We don't even do it to
those
>convicted of treason.
>
>Tim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:49 PM
>To: CF-Community
>Subject: Patriot Act II
>
>
>http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/06/findlaw.analysis.mariner.patriotII/index.
h
>tml
>
>So what does everyone think of this law?
>I find this disturbing
>
>Among Patriot II's most worrying provisions are those affecting
citizenship.
>Section 501 of the bill, deceptively titled "Expatriation of Terrorists,"
>would provide for the presumptive denationalization of American citizens
who
>support the activities of any organization that the executive branch has
>deemed "terrorist." While it is already illegal to provide material support
>to such groups, even for their lawful activities, such support is
considered
>grounds only for criminal prosecution, not for the loss of citizenship.
>
>
>--
>Bill Wheatley
>Senior Database Developer
>Macromedia Advanced Coldfusion 5 Developer
>Ediets.com
>ICQ - 417645
>Aim - Bill Ediets
>954-360-9022 x159
>
>
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