http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/
Dharmesh
-----Original Message-----
From: dana tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:25 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re:The Damasus Holiday Inn...
As a Canadian living in the US I have crossed the border many many times.
The Canadians ALWAYS ask 1) where I am going 2) why 3) what my status is in the US (probably because I am driving an American-registered car and presenting a US driver's license as ID). If I have my children with me I am directed to the office, 100% of the time, where we have a courteous but pithy discussion of the children's citizenship and of my custody arrangements.
Coming back, I have learned to use the green card as ID as I will be asked for it if I have anything else out. I have crossed without it, but this requires a visit to the office for status verification. Either way I will ALWAYS be asked how long I have been in Canada and why, and where I live. It can go on from there; I have been asked why my car has NM tags if I live in Texas (fair question), do I own land and why not (huh?), aren't I lucky that they are going to let me in, and so forth.
My assessment of the two borders is that the Canadians are always courteous, although they are rather firm about not wanting any parental kidnappings. I would say professional. The Americans on the other hand have some really angry people in the immigration service. If you dont run across one of them, you are generally also treated in a professional matter. It may be that given my citizenship I do not get to see the bigots in the Canadian immigration service.
As for the article..... my brother sent it to me. I had not heard a thing about it before that, though as I have said, the Albuquerque Journal is extreeeemely pro-administration.
A few comments -
The Globe and Mail is a highly respected newspaper. If they printed this, they investigated it.
I too have had US immigration tell me that foreign citizens have no rights in the US. So it is not surprising that he wasn't allowed a lawyer. What bothers me is that the man was a refugee essentially, I don't know if he entered Canada with political asylum, but it does sound like he had excellent reason to fear for his safety in Syria.
So, if the fact that he is Syrian triggers all these alarms, why send him back there? I mean, we are not on the best of terms with the country, correct? And that is, according to Tim, a possible reason for this scenario? So if we are on such bad terms with them why send this man there? He should have gone to Canada, where he was a citizen. In the unlikely event that they had refused to take him (why? he had been peacefully living in Montreal for years) then he should have be turned over to some third party. Switzerland for instance seemed unruffled by his stay there....
Another thought is that it may be rather easy to be suspected of terrorist ties. I understand that a lot of Irish in Boston and New York donated to charities that turned out to be affiliated with the IRA. I don't really know the details but I understand that they thought they were paying into some sort of poor-relief fund, and in fact may have been doing exactly that, except that the organization running it shares some board members with another organization that also makes bombs. I am not excusing the making of bombs, just saying that your name can conceivably wind up on a list without you yourself ever having done anything to support terrorism that you know.
I would appreciate an update on the inquiry in Canada, when someone sees one.
>One small comment on crossing the border from the US to Canada and from
>Canada to the US.
>
>When I drive over, I enter at the Detroit/Windsor border. When I go into
>Canada, I show my passport and get grilled with questions like:
>
>- What is my occupation
>- Why am I visiting
>- Do I have any weapons
>- Do I own firearms even thought I don't have them on my person
>- How much cash am I bringing into the country
>- Who am I going to see and how do I know them and for how long
>- Have I ever been fingerprinted
>
>Then, I am asked to raise the cover on the bed of my pick up for a quick
>inspection.
>
>When I cross back into the US from Canada, it's almost silly. All they
>do is glance at my passport, ask me if I want to declare anything, and
>then wave me on. They never check my truck or anything. Granted they
>look at me and see that I'm a white male with proof of US citizenship
>but so what? American Taliban anyone?
>
>When Amy comes to visit me from Canada, she is asked many, many, many
>questions by US Immigraion even though she has a passport and Canadian
>government ID. The only difference is that she flyes instead of driving.
>
>~Dan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:56 PM
>To: CF-Community
>Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>
>
>I don't remember any Indian terrorists coming here to bomb us. Nor
>Mexicans, Japanese or Russians. There's a stereotype of
>Middle-easterners being terrorists and it's caused by the fact that
>every one of the 911 terrorists was Middle-eastern, that 243 Marines
>were killed in Lebanon, that Isreal is under constant siege from the
>Palestinians, and that they throw parades when Americans die.
>
>Ok, you don't agree with me. All I said was that it was right to be
>suspicious of him. He's a middle-easterner who's associated with
>somebody who is thought to be a terrorist, and he was returning from an
>Islamic country, on his way to Canada, which has far more liberal laws
>about people entering their country than we do. I never said it was
>right to torture him or deport him. He should have been given a lawyer
>at the very least. Above all, this is only if you believe everything he
>has to say.
>
>- Matt Small
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry C. Lyons
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>
>
> Matthew,
>
> Britons and other Europeans also come into the US from Canada. So do
> Mexicans, Japanese, Indians and Russians. So what. Hell even Canadians
>come
> from Canada to the US. There are terrorists in all of the countries I
> mentioned. So does that give the US government the right to kidnap
>them and
> send them to somewhere else where he could be tortured?
>
> The guy was not staying in the US, he was changing planes to end his
> journey in Montreal, PQ Canada. He was not sneaking into the US. In
> contrast he was trying to get out of the country. His only crime so
>far, he
> slightly knew someone who may have been suspected of having terrorist
>ties.
> I say suspected because the American government has offered no
>substantive
> evidence that Alkamadi was in any way associated with any terrorist
>group.
>
> larry
>
> At 01:38 PM 11/5/2003, you wrote:
> >The publicized fact that is that Middle-Easterners are known to come
>into
> >the US via Canada. This is a suspicious situation, plain and simple.
>I
> >didn't agree with the fact that he was tortured or deported. I said
>it
> >was suspicious and I believe the right thing to do is to question
>further.
> >You don't have to give me one, the one taints the other two. I don't
>like
> >a lot of things going on with this kind of interrogation, but they
>were
> >right on the money in detaining him for further
> >questioning. Bigoted? How about realistic. Lots of people have
>been
> >"further questioned" for far less, including myself. I'm a young
>white
> >southern male.
> >
> >- Matt Small
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Raymond Camden
> > To: CF-Community
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:37 PM
> > Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
> >
> > Wow, so you listed 3 facts:
> >
> > 1) A middle-easterner living in Canada.
> >
> > So, is Canada just a bunch of white guys?
> >
> > 2) Coming back from a Middle-Eastern country.
> >
> > So all Middle-Eastern countries are under suspicion now?
> >
> > 3) Known contact with a terrorist.
> >
> > Wasn't he a suspected, not proven terrorist? Wasn't the contact
>from
> > years ago? I can maybe give you this one, but the other two are
>simply
> > wrong. Bigoted at worst.
> >
> > -rc
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:40 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
> > >
> > >
> > > A Middle-Easterner living in Canada, coming back from a
> > > Middle-Eastern country, known contact with Middle-Eastern
> > > terrorists. That's suspicious. I didn't say guilty, I said
> > > suspicious.
> > >
> > > - Matt Small
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Raymond Camden
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:22 PM
> > > Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
> > >
> > >
> > > > I don't agree with the torture and deportation... but I
> > > > stand by the fact that it's a very suspicious scene.
> > >
> > > Why? You said he was middle eastern flying from a islamic
> > > country. Is
> > > that something rare? Doesn't this happen thousands of times
> > > a day? Is it
> > > suspicious to fly home?
> > >
> > > -ray
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >----------
> >[
>
>
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