Also looking at the INS, it would be the case of the pot calling the kettle black. Security incidents have happened in the US. All people responsible for them came into the US legally using International airports (again, not from Canada) that are manned by the INS,etc.
Dharmesh
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:14 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: The Damascus Holiday Inn...
Well, I disagree.
The US and Canada have a special border relationship. It has traditionally been much easier to cross into the US from Canada than to enter from any other county.
The reason this was possible was due to the similarity in immigration and visa rules between the two countries.
We could trust that the kind of people that Canada let into Canada would also be let into the US. So there was no need to worry much over people passing between the two countries.
In the wake of 9/11, however, the US has changed its policies. We are more careful of who can enter and who can stay.
But Canada has not changed in the same way. They let people into Canada that would no longer be allowed into the US. So it is no longer safe to assume that someone who is in Canada should be let into the US.
Therefore, everyone from Canada becomes suspect, and needs to be checked out as if they were a possible danger.
If and when the two countries get closer again in entry policy, this may change.
Jerry Johnson
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/06/03 03:04PM >>>
I guess that is why Pat Buchanan still has an audience. There was no link between the 19 hijackers and Canada. Whose duty is to patrol the border on the American side? Am I missing something. The same can be said about crossing from Mexico or by boat/ship. So you have a guy here in Canada who suddenly decides he has a beef with the US and decides to cross over. Suddenly it is Canada's duty to stop him from crossing the border?!?. In the case of Ahmed Ressam your system of border checks worked as it should. There are agencies in Canada like RCMP and CSIS always on the look out for such people and trying to infiltrate their groups.
Perception of the security situation and reality on ground are very different. After every scare mongering tactic/warnings/articles by the administration/media, there are rarely retractions. You can draw your own conclusions after reading the two articles I posted before. You had Hillary Clinton misleading your people. "Transfer" of problems is a very common psychological "defense mechanism" on a personal level. The same is being applied on a national level.
Dharmesh
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:16 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
Excuse me, I meant that Middle-Eastern Terrorists are known to come into the US via Canada. This was publicized on national news shows after 911. Gosh, with this kind of story, if I were a terrorist, I would go through Canada - why would I even take the chance on being taken in at US Customs only to be deported and tortured? The fact that it has a HUGE unpatrolled border with the US makes it a prime entry target. Whether or not you believe it that is a matter of personal choice. I'm sure there's documentation on it where it did happen as well your documentation below.
- Matthew Small
----- Original Message -----
From: Dharmesh Goel
To: CF-Community
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
Hi Mathew,
I strongly disagree with
"The publicized fact that is that Middle-Easterners are known to come into the US via Canada."
This is a case of if a lie is told over and over again, people will start believing it. The last time I checked, borders are manned and controlled by US Immigration and customs at points of entry.
Here is a discussion on this:
http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/documents/030211_blamecanada_buchanan.html
Another article:
http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2003/01/19/fObserver172.raw.html
Tons of discussion on this topic out there in cyberspace.
Some excerpts
------------------------
DISCLOSURE: I'm sure you remember this whole incident over the New Year period, where there was this alert that there were five men in the United States.
BUCHANAN: Mm hmm.
DISCLOSURE: And reports were that they had come from Canada, somehow related to terrorism.
BUCHANAN: And it was a hoax.
DISCLOSURE: And it was a hoax.
BUCHANAN: Right.
DISCLOSURE: So, what do you make of that?
BUCHANAN: Well it was a hoax but [laugh] they probably felt that because it was from Canada it would be believed, is my guess.
DISCLOSURE: Well is that fair?
------------------------
DISCLOSURE: -you've got a situation in this country where you had 19 hijackers coming through the front door, now where's the problem?
BUCHANAN: Well it -Look the- Clearly the United States is the target. And they come into our airports, they come through Canada, they come through Mexico, so let's tighten-
DISCLOSURE: Well they- who comes through Canada?
BUCHANAN: Well- Look. We've already been over this, but-
DISCLOSURE: Who comes through Canada though? Has there been an incident with somebody who comes through-
BUCHANAN: Well there are many terrorists as you know, so, [laugh] that have been sitting there almost operating freely-
DISCLOSURE: Well-
BUCHANAN: -up in Canada.
DISCLOSURE: Well so you say, but where's the terrorist incidents?
---------------------
Dharmesh
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:38 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
The publicized fact that is that Middle-Easterners are known to come into the US via Canada. This is a suspicious situation, plain and simple. I didn't agree with the fact that he was tortured or deported. I said it was suspicious and I believe the right thing to do is to question further. You don't have to give me one, the one taints the other two. I don't like a lot of things going on with this kind of interrogation, but they were right on the money in detaining him for further questioning. Bigoted? How about realistic. Lots of people have been "further questioned" for far less, including myself. I'm a young white southern male.
- Matt Small
----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Camden
To: CF-Community
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
Wow, so you listed 3 facts:
1) A middle-easterner living in Canada.
So, is Canada just a bunch of white guys?
2) Coming back from a Middle-Eastern country.
So all Middle-Eastern countries are under suspicion now?
3) Known contact with a terrorist.
Wasn't he a suspected, not proven terrorist? Wasn't the contact from
years ago? I can maybe give you this one, but the other two are simply
wrong. Bigoted at worst.
-rc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:40 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>
>
> A Middle-Easterner living in Canada, coming back from a
> Middle-Eastern country, known contact with Middle-Eastern
> terrorists. That's suspicious. I didn't say guilty, I said
> suspicious.
>
> - Matt Small
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Camden
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:22 PM
> Subject: RE: The Damasus Holiday Inn...
>
>
> > I don't agree with the torture and deportation... but I
> > stand by the fact that it's a very suspicious scene.
>
> Why? You said he was middle eastern flying from a islamic
> country. Is
> that something rare? Doesn't this happen thousands of times
> a day? Is it
> suspicious to fly home?
>
> -ray
>
>
>
>
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