Kwang Suh wrote: > One thing that depresses me about the CF community is their incredible > defensiveness, even from MM. >
If you only take the opinions from people who have subscribed to a relatively high volume mailing list called CF-Talk you'd be very naive to expect anything else. Would you expect to see a lot of support for a ".NET is better than PHP" type of post in the PHP mailing lists. I somehow doubt it. Posting questions about the relative merit of .NET vs CF on this list will undoubtedly get you a lot of responses that are skewed towards CF, but you may find a few people who have some balanced opinions and experience to share. Posting a message that tells everyone on the list that they are asleep and that they are deluded if they think CF is better than .NET is bound to ruffle a lot of feathers. > When .NET came out, and people started to use and understand it better, the > Java community did what every CF person should be doing: they learned .NET. > And then they deconstructed it. And then they asked themselves: > > "What can we take from .NET to make Java better" Really? I'd not heard that before. Can you point me to some of the sources where you got that information? There have certainly been changes for the better in the Java and J2EE world, but I'm not convinced that they were as a direct response to .NET. > > They realized that JSP was too simple, and that it didn't include enough base > functionality. > > They realized that making custom tags in JSP was too hard. > > They realized that frameworks like Struts and JSF weren't perhaps the road to > go down. > > They realized that it was too unwieldly to configure and deploy Java servers, > and that it brought no real benefits the way they did it. > > They realized that EJBs were too hard to design, and for no good reason. > > They realized that in order to keep Java as a first class development > platform, they had to fix these problems, and add more features as they went > along. Not just one or two "cool" features that Sun would provide on high as > determined by their marketing department, but real things that would matter > on a day to day basis from a developer's point of view. I'd pretty much agree with the above statements, but I don't think they happened because of .NET. I think they happened because the customers and community were braying like a herd of donkeys that it needed to be improved. > > One day, I'd like to see the CF community do that. There's a few people out > there that do that, and Will's semi-rant is a vent not just at MM, but the > people that use CF that seem to want to defend it to the death, and the > verocity at chiding people who want to see CF change and improve. What exactly is it that's too simple, hard, unweildy about CFMX that so desperately needs fixing? > > I'm curious. I wonder how many people on this list said, before CFMX came > out, and before Neo was a twinkle in anyone's eye: "CF should be written in > Java." I'd say no one. This is not a place for change. I know a few people certainly would have said that quite a long time ago. When Neo first became an twinkle in someone's eye is pretty hard to gauge, but back in late 1998 Live Software were working on CF_Anywhere which was the first sign of a CFML execution engine written in Java. In 2000 n-ary were working on TagFusion which later became New Atlanta's BlueDragon. Both of those were before the official Neo announcement at the 2001 DevCon and I know that they were discussed on this list pretty early in their development cycles. http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=m:4:646:2872 Besides that, I don't really see what point you're trying to make. Even if no-one on this list suggested that CF should be written in Java, why should that mean that this list is not a place for change? By that reasoning the fact that no-one else (or at least not many) foresaw the popularity of the I-Pod would mean that no-one but Steve Jobs has the foresight for change. Spike > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - CFDynamics http://www.cfdynamics.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187407 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
