Hi Peter,

Where's the project management, your first cut shouldn't be done until
specifications are signed off, anything else is a change request and has a $
value.

Save yourself time and your company $'s by at least exploring PMBok project
management framework, otherwise you will always have a pain point.

I worked in Fed Gov for a number of years, starting back in 04, we went from
CF5 to MX, adopted the Mach-II framework, had a custom built (by us) totally
awesome CMS, we pushed something like 13 websites fully functional fully
dynamic out the door in 18 months.  By the time I left there I had the
ability to receive a CSS skin from a designer and have a fully dynamic, full
functionality website ready for system test, UAT and deployment in 2 hours.

OO... in particular MVC is the way to go with CF IMHO.

Example website built in 2 hours is
http://www.energyefficiencyopportunities.gov.au

Because the sites were all built on a vanilla spec, it was plug and play, to
get it through test quick I would highlight any changed functionality and
that is all they would test, never had a fail.

Cheers,

R

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Peter Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I get there is a use case for passive code gen, but for me it's pretty
> limited. Assume only 20% of effort is building site (compared to
> maintenance) and 20% is building the first cut with 80% being making changes
> to original version, the most it can do is speed up 4% of the app. It isn't
> that much harder to do active code gen with rich metadata and allows you to
> be way more productive over the entire lifecycle. Just a matter of learning
> the principles and implementing the tooling. I usually find it's worth a day
> or two to create usable tooling for active, full lifecycle code gen rather
> than just using the wizards.
> Best Wishes,
> Peter
>
> On Jun 25, 2008, at 3:47 AM, Rae Buerckner wrote:
>
> Scenario > You're building an enterprise application for an existing
> database > You have Flex 3 front ends > ColdFusion 8 backend!
>
> Install the ColdFusion extensions (free) for Flex Builder > Create a new
> Flex project > Setup your CF setting in the Flex project > enable RDS
>
> You can now browse to any database CF can see, right click on a table >
> select generate CFC's!
>
> Seconds later you have all your getters & setters, all your CRUD and all
> your actionscript.
>
> 20 or so lines of MXML later you have your GUI
>
> Time to market is always the winner!
>
> R
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Peter Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Personally I think the tooling in .net is the worst thing to happen to
>> a good language. I like many of the language features in c#, but the
>> patterns that the tooling supports (code behind, page controllers)
>> just aren't as good as some of the best practice patterns in the Java
>> world. Also, tooling will tend to generate code and the best code is
>> the code that NOBODY writes and that doesn't exist. That is where
>> frameworks come in by raising the level of abstraction. Right now I'm
>> at a code gen conference with some of the Microsoft DSL tools team
>> including Steve Cook and I'll see how it has improved since last year,
>> but I don't feel that on balance the Microsoft tooling does more good
>> than harm for building large, scalable enterprise apps.
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>> Peter
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2008, at 2:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I see you point that they (tools and frameworks) fill many of the same
>> > needs. That is probably true of every language.
>> >
>> > But I disagree with the implication that a good tool is inherently
>> > better than a good framework. The choice is much more pragmatic than
>> > that: which option offers the best features, smoothest learning curve,
>> > etc.
>> >
>> > Visual Studio is the clear winner in the .NET space and frameworks are
>> > big in ColdFusion.
>> >
>> > Personally I'm happy to get my hands dirty with plumbing - I'm sure my
>> > understanding of application design and development is the better for
>> > it.
>> >
>> > Blair
>> >
>> > On 6/25/08, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> I'm sure that convo will yield a lot and provide little :) After
>> >> spending
>> >> some time look around for the past 5 years I've come to one sad
>> >> conclusion
>> >> and I'm sure it's not popular thinking.. Frameworks in coldfusion
>> >> exist to
>> >> compensate for lack of tooling, as if you have nothing to automate
>> >> the
>> >> plumbing you now have to write the automation to then keep the pieces
>> >> manageable to connect.
>> >>
>> >> to answer this riddle, Imagine for a moment if everyone wrote .NET
>> >> with
>> >> notepad? as of today - where would it be tomorrow?
>> >>
>> >> **
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Barry Beattie <
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Barnes' thoughts (or similar) are being echoed over on the CFC Dev
>> >>> list at the moment with people like Peter Bell, Sean Corfield, Brian
>> >>> Kotek and our very own Mark Mandel, amongst others.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/cfcdev/browse_thread/thread/2e90c0dbfecf5a59
>> >>> " Doubts about Best Practices"
>> >>>
>> >>> why was fusebox invented in the firstplace? to push people into
>> >>> doing
>> >>> something more than writing spaghetti code. but you gotta have an
>> >>> idea
>> >>> of how to fix it before you can fully appreciate the problem. Hence
>> >>> the value of learning about design patterns. See the Donald Rumsfeld
>> >>> quote at the bottom
>> >>>
>> >>> let me leave you with some quotes:
>> >>>
>> >>> ... two from Albert Einstein
>> >>>
>> >>> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
>> >>> violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to
>> >>> move
>> >>> in the opposite direction."
>> >>> - and -
>> >>> "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
>> >>>
>> >>> ... one I got reminded from by (of all people) Gary Menzel
>> >>>
>> >>> "Code for maintainance"
>> >>>
>> >>> ... and Donald Rumsfeld really sums it up
>> >>>
>> >>> "As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we
>> >>> know.
>> >>> We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there
>> >>> are some things we do not know.
>> >>> But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know we don't
>> >>> know."
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Scott Barnes
>> >> http://www.mossyblog.com
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>

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