[cfaussie] Re: Is CF Programming Becoming Dieing A Slow Death ??

[Andrew Scott]

M@,   Mikes concerns are very valid, I have spent the majority of my time in web development using coldfusion. However after the dot.com bust, I found it hard to find work as a contractor here in Melbourne. The problem is that MM might be selling the software, but there is not enough focus on the developer edition or creating a real market share and is seen as a very expensive option.   Yet the misconception is that in the long run the cost is very justified if developed in the right way. I once got into a heated debate on a PHP mailing list, the guy was looking for ammunition that he could use for both products to his management. Java has got the push from sun as the be all and end all when it comes to J2EE, but there is not enough developers that really know their stuff that can satisfy the coldfusion market, and that will be the killer for MM.   The beauty about coldfusion is that is very easy to learn, but very hard to adopt a methodology / framework that is fast and very rapid unless you really know what you’re doing. We have a framework that was developed by my ex boss, and until I started work with this framework I was looking seriously at Mach-II, but this framework really is painless and can make a complex application become very simple to write. Most frameworks that I have seen and adopted myself have nothing in ease like this one.   So the problem lies not in that MM are selling the product, it lies in the developers available. I have in the past voiced my opinion on this before, how can a product survive when there is no real new developers coming up the ranks. Sure there are a few learning in their spare time, and I have met a few in my time. The problem lies in the normal channels when looking for work, the jobs in comparison are no there and to get the skill set that a manager really is looking for is hard to find.   So from a management point of view, if one was to look and can’t get what is required what do you do. Look for another option, and this is the problem the job market is not being portrayed in the channels that most people would normally look for work.  So what does a manager want to do, keep looking or make another decision to go with .Net or JSP or maybe even PHP.   This has been debated to death, but at the end of the day the market (Job Market) is what is really dictating the technology that is being used. Mike I feel for you and I really here what your saying, and unless someone knows your looking it is hard to get the work, agencies are at the moment looking for people to put on there books so a lot of jobs are ghost / dummy jobs just to get you on there books.   I remember the days when reps would be out there pushing the product to potential companies, is this still happening and if so why are there no jobs coming from this then?     Regards, Andrew Scott   Quote of the Day: To iterate is human; to recurse, divine. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Monday, 10 October 2005 8:01 PM To: CFAussie Mailing List Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Is CF Programming Becoming Dieing A Slow Death ??   >There is a geniuine perception in a large proportion of web site owners that >.ColdFusion is either dying or will die when Adobe take control. Mike I've only heard 1 developer say such a thing, peter tilbrooke said it on here once and everyone disagreed, Adobe would be insane to buy out MM then scrap profitable products lol Adobe needs CF, it gives Adobe an extra strong footing in there PDF market, the Adobe people were very very impressed with CF, this is stated in 1 of the CF 10th birthday recordings, The same garbage was said when MM took over Allaire, and CF sells more servers now then when allaire was selling it. As for your other comments/questions I've replied to you off list. >>also CF has around 10% of all websites >I do hope you don't mean in the world………what a statement. I'm aghast >if it was! Neil, Why are you shocked by 10% are you shocked in a positive way or a negative way, I hope you meant a positive way. 10% of the Internet is massive majority of all pages on the web are static HTML. most big sites like ya yahoo, google, ebay amazon etc aren't CF, ASP, PHP or JSP Perl and so fourth although 1 of those .com's has a Coldfusion intranet and also another has a PHP intranet. Also I believe MM when they say for every CF page on the net they estimate there is 2 on an intranet, as I have worked on more CF intranet applications then CF Internet applications, and most of the companies I've worked for have a website made out of ASP or some crap, but had CF intranet applications the reason for this that I can gather is (by talking to developers at the company), they got some 3rd party to design there website. There is over 100 server side languages that sites on the net are made up of, so 10% is a massive %. CF is never going to be the number one language, the number 1 language will always be an open source free language like PHP or the like, CF if a specialised product, aimed solely as Rapid web development. Do I think MM could do more to sell there product? yes. I worked at a company that used cf5 and the developers told me that they have no plans to upgrade as they can't see any difference between cf5 and cf6.1 (and most developers were java developers) This is where I think MM could send out an info pack to previous customers each time a new version comes out. even an email would be a start. One year I downloaded a MM product, then 3 months later got an invite to a developer conference/product launch, so I went along. then a year later I checked and found that another product launch had just been on and I had missed it, So Iemailed MM asking why I never got invited, I was told that they only send out emails to people who have downloaded one of there products within the last year lol. would make a lot more sense to email everyone who hasn't chose to unsubscribe. Regards M@ b­®¶¹®v}²±­r­¦r¹ž±m•z–yq²×é²ij²1¢‰½¥†ÿ²i --- You are currently subscribed to cfaussie as: archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aussie Macromedia Developers: http://lists.daemon.com.au/