Here's my thoughts on the questions: On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> Concerning the page: > http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Vocabulary/SpecialCombinations > > The dust kicked up when horns are locked is obscuring for me some important > pragmatic questions, to which I personally would like to know the answers. > Let me break them down as follows: > > 1. Why is it good for anyone but a speed-freak to know about J's hidden > speedups? > > Besides performance, special combinations let a person know what is a common "pattern" or idiom in J code. My logic -- it wouldn't be a SC if it was a one-off, uncommon way of doing things. > 2. Ditto for people starting out learning to code seriously in J? > > In addition to above, knowing that SCs exist make me feel more confident about the language -- that is has been 'battle tested' > 3. Ditto for people who are just curious about J? > I think my answer still applies > > 4. Why is it good to have an exhaustive reference to J's hidden speedups in > NuVoc, of all places (the beginner's way-into the J world)? > Same as above -- good to know the common patterns > > 5. How well hidden are J's "hidden" speedups? > Is a beginner so likely to fall foul of them that a good knowledge of them > is needed right from Day 1? > What does this say to the J-curious about the design of the language? > > I don't think a beginner needs to know them from day 1. It is important for J to have "batteries included" good performance... or performance that largely "just works". Not necessarily winning the benchmark competitions, but enough to give a good experience > 6. Why does J need speedups at all, hidden or otherwise? > If it does, why bother to hide them? Why not just have libraries of faster > alternatives to common idioms? > Package them as Foreigns if we want to persist in avoiding expressive > reserved names. > I think the same as above... If we use the idea of notation as a tool of thought... simple notation that is optimized for performance seems to be a good thing -- to me at least. I'd rather learn the notation instead of a bunch of obscure foreigns (323!:23) or the slew of names Good questions! > > Does J need hidden speedups because a central feature of J (subtle > bolting-together of array-savvy functions to make new ones) denies you the > scope to code efficiently, which is inherent in looping scalar languages? > This surely must be uppermost in the minds of C++ programmers (and others) > as they approach J. > > For those of us who've been writing J for decades, question 6 will seem > like a non-issue. Languages have "optimization" like houses have plumbing. > Period. But to people shopping for a new and better language, either to > learn themselves or to recruit / train their development teams in, I'd say > 6 is the most important issue of all where J is concerned. > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 6:48 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Raul > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 1:40 PM, james faure <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > Is that a serious question ? After all the time I spent explaining the > > alternative ? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Chat <[email protected]> on behalf of Raul > Miller > > <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 7:38:27 PM > > > To: Chat forum > > > Subject: Re: [Jchat] Where is J going ? > > > > > > Why do you think optimizations are bad? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -- > > > Raul > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 1:30 PM, james faure <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >> I mean Special combination: http://code.jsoftware.com/ > wiki/Vocabulary/ > > SpecialCombinations > > >> > > >> Vocabulary/SpecialCombinations - J Wiki<http://code.jsoftware. > > com/wiki/Vocabulary/SpecialCombinations> > > >> code.jsoftware.com > > >> J typically executes verbs one by one, right-to-left, each verb not > > knowing what is coming next a =: 1000 1000 ?@$ 0 NB. 1 million random > > values in a 1000 by 1000 ... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> From: Chat <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian > > Schott <[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 6:24:45 PM > > >> To: Chat forum > > >> Subject: Re: [Jchat] Where is J going ? > > >> > > >> I think it means stop_condition. > > >> > > >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:36 AM, Devon McCormick <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> Again, I ask, in > > >>> " 4 The SC based system has has got to go... " > > >>> what is "SC based"? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > forums.htm > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ > forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
