We¹ve already done that for Zeus and, as I¹ve explained, I don¹t think I would be able to secure more funding when we can just use Apache instead. Although I personally believe it would be worth the investment - and that we should always try to provide a better service than our competitors rather than just copy them it¹s very difficult to promote an unproven solution over one that is being used by 70% of all sites on the web.
> > Then as a commercial venture, employ someone to create that functionality for > you if you can't or won't yourself. Or experiment with the already available > redirection handler which seems to do a fine job of replacing the mod_rewrite > functionality. > > On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:11, Marcus Don <[email protected]> wrote: > >> What it does is allow non-developers to install thousands of applications >> into a shared hosting account without the need for them to employ a >> developer. It¹s not a question of functionality, it¹s a matter of commercial >> necessity. >> >> Marcus >> >>> >>> Am I missing something? What does mod_rewrite do that the redirection >>> handler doesn't do? >>> >>> I think your approach may be a little off: no one is here to develop >>> software for you regardless of how many perspective servers you want to use >>> it with. That should be irrelevant to the discussion. >>> >>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:32, Marcus Don <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Tony >>>> >>>> Thanks for your feedback. >>>> >>>> We¹ve already invested a considerable amount in developing this software, >>>> so I doubt I could secure more funding to adapt it to another platform. >>>> Even if I could, there is no commercial case for us to continue funding the >>>> ongoing development and maintenance when we can use Apache for free. So, by >>>> providing such as significant head-start, I was hoping I could drum up >>>> enough support among the existing Cherokee developers. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am sure everyone wants to see Cherokee use grow. However, volunteer >>>>> developers can only do so much. They still have to earn a living. If you >>>>> are going to use it on that scale, which is great, why not put some money >>>>> on the table as an investment for you and the community. Even if it is >>>>> not what you would pay a contractor, volunteers might be much more >>>>> motivated. You would still be benefiting from the incredible amount of >>>>> work that has already gone into Cherokee. Also, if use grows worldwide, >>>>> you would benefit in the long run if other commercial companies decided to >>>>> begin to deploy it and contribute back code. >>>>> >>>>> Just my two cents. >>>>> >>>>> Tony Zakula >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Marcus Don <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > > wrote: >>>>>> Since I've had virtually no response to my email below, I'll try again in >>>>>> far fewer words. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm interested in using Cherokee to host around 50,000 sites and 600,000 >>>>>> domains, with the potential to extend this to 600,000 sites and 1.6 >>>>>> million >>>>>> domains. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, our customers want mod_rewrite, which Cherokee doesn't >>>>>> currently support. However, we own the source code for a mod_rewrite >>>>>> equivalent, which we are willing to donate to Cherokee if enough people >>>>>> are >>>>>> interested. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are interested in the possibility of Cherokee becoming a serious >>>>>> alternative to Apache for commercial, mass hosting, please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Marcus >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Hi >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Apologies in advance for the length of this email, please bear with me >>>>>>> :) >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > First an introduction: I'm senior manager of R&D for a group of ISPs >>>>>>> including >>>>>>> > register.it <http://register.it> <http://register.it >>>>>>> <http://register.it> > <http://register.it <http://register.it> >>>>>>> <http://register.it <http://register.it> > > , names.co.uk >>>>>>> <http://names.co.uk> <http://names.co.uk <http://names.co.uk> > >>>>>>> <http://names.co.uk <http://names.co.uk> <http://names.co.uk >>>>>>> <http://names.co.uk> > > , nominalia.es <http://nominalia.es> >>>>>>> <http://nominalia.es <http://nominalia.es> > <http://nominalia.es >>>>>>> <http://nominalia.es> <http://nominalia.es <http://nominalia.es> > > , >>>>>>> amen.fr <http://amen.fr> <http://amen.fr <http://amen.fr> > >>>>>>> <http://amen.fr <http://amen.fr> <http://amen.fr <http://amen.fr> > > , >>>>>>> register365.com <http://register365.com> <http://register365.com >>>>>>> <http://register365.com> > <http://register365.com >>>>>>> <http://register365.com> <http://register365.com >>>>>>> <http://register365.com> > > , and >>>>>>> > simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com> >>>>>>> <http://simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com> > >>>>>>> <http://simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com> >>>>>>> <http://simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com> > > . As a group, >>>>>>> we host over 1.6 million domains and 600,000 >>>>>>> > web sites. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Currently, we have 3 shared hosting clusters in Italy, the UK and >>>>>>> Ireland. The >>>>>>> > Italian platform is based on Apache and the UK and Irish platforms are >>>>>>> based >>>>>>> > on Zeus Web Server. We also have a legacy platform, inherited from a >>>>>>> recent >>>>>>> > acquisition, based on Apache and H-Sphere, which we are currently >>>>>>> migrating to >>>>>>> > Zeus. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Until recently, we have been very happy with our choice of Zeus Web >>>>>>> Server. We >>>>>>> > have gained a solid reputation in the UK for having a very >>>>>>> high-performing and >>>>>>> > reliable platform, and we have won the UK ISP Award (ISPA) for Best >>>>>>> Shared >>>>>>> > Hosting for the last 3 years running. However, we are now considering >>>>>>> > migrating away from ZWS for the following reasons: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 1) It hasn't been updated since 2007, and Zeus will not commit to any >>>>>>> future >>>>>>> > updates other than security patches. >>>>>>> > 2) It makes commercial sense for us to use the same technology >>>>>>> everywhere in >>>>>>> > the group. >>>>>>> > 3) Zeus does not support mod_rewrite. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Given these requirements, and the fact we are already using it in >>>>>>> Italy, the >>>>>>> > obvious solution would be to use Apache on all platforms. However, I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> > seriously concerned that the performance would suffer as a result, so >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> > currently studying the feasibility of other options. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The need for mod_rewrite is a practical, commercial requirement based >>>>>>> on the >>>>>>> > fact that many 3rd-party applications require rewrite rules, and the >>>>>>> vast >>>>>>> > majority only work with mod_rewrite without the intervention of a >>>>>>> developer. >>>>>>> > This has always been something of issue for us, and the growing >>>>>>> popularity of >>>>>>> > open source software among non-developers is greatly exacerbating the >>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>> > Also, we now provide Softaculous for our customers, but we've had to >>>>>>> disable >>>>>>> > many of the 150+ applications because of their reliance on >>>>>>> mod_rewrite. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Furthermore, when we started migrating the H-Sphere platform, we found >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> > unusually high proportion of domains are using mod_rewrite. During >>>>>>> previous >>>>>>> > migrations, we have replaced them with Zeus rewrite scripts, but this >>>>>>> time the >>>>>>> > numbers are just too high. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > So, we recently employed an experienced C developer to write an ISAPI >>>>>>> filter >>>>>>> > to replicate exactly the behaviour of mod_rewrite under Zeus. However, >>>>>>> > although this works perfectly in our development environment (even >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> > extremely heavy loads), after a few days on the live platform, >>>>>>> something goes >>>>>>> > very wrong. After several weeks of debugging, testing and reading >>>>>>> memory >>>>>>> > dumps, we're convinced the problem is with Zeus's ISAPI implementation >>>>>>> - but >>>>>>> > so far we are unable to prove it, and I'm not sure they would fix it >>>>>>> even if >>>>>>> > we could! >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > If you are interested, I am confident I could arrange for the source >>>>>>> code of >>>>>>> > our ISAPI Rewrite module to be released to the Cherokee project for >>>>>>> use as an >>>>>>> > optional module. Obviously, the ISAPI layer would need to be replaced, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> > this is a minor part of the code. All we ask in return is that someone >>>>>>> adds >>>>>>> > support for the other, mostly very simple, htaccess directives. I can >>>>>>> ask the >>>>>>> > original developer if he would be willing to contribute to this, but >>>>>>> he >>>>>>> > doesn't work for me so I can't guarantee it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Without this functionality, the only other option available to us is >>>>>>> LiteSpeed >>>>>>> > - but I'm not keen on adopting another closed-source solution that >>>>>>> isn't >>>>>>> > gaining significant market share. Also, I am convinced this is the >>>>>>> only major >>>>>>> > hurdle preventing other mass hosting providers from moving away from >>>>>>> Apache to >>>>>>> > something that scales more efficiently, such as Cherokee. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Lastly, I have another feature suggestion to address the needs of mass >>>>>>> hosting >>>>>>> > - support for custom document root mapping functions. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Currently, we use the same method as shown in the documentation - ie >>>>>>> > /sites/e/x/example.com <http://example.com <http://example.com> >>>>>>> <http://example.com <http://example.com> > > . This is fine for a few >>>>>>> 10s of thousands of sites, but >>>>>>> > not very efficient once you get beyond 100,000. A better solution is >>>>>>> what we >>>>>>> > use on our email clusters, which have many more users (around >>>>>>> 1,000,000 in >>>>>>> > Italy). This uses the last 3 characters of the MD5 checksum of the >>>>>>> username, >>>>>>> > like this: /email/5ab/example.com <http://example.com >>>>>>> <http://example.com> <http://example.com <http://example.com> > > . >>>>>>> This produces a more even distribution and, >>>>>>> > by being wide and shallow, allows for a much more efficient stat >>>>>>> cache. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Regards >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Marcus >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Marcus Don >>>>>>> > Senior Manager >>>>>>> > Research and Development >>>>>>> > DadaPro >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Main Line: +44 (0)845 363 3630 >>>>>>> > Main Fax: +44 (0)845 363 3631 >>>>>>> > Tech Support: +44 (0)845 363 3634 >>>>>>> > Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>>>> > Website: http://www.names.co.uk <http://www.names.co.uk> >>>>>>> <http://www.names.co.uk <http://www.names.co.uk> > >>>>>>> > Address: Acton House, Perdiswell Park, Worcester WR3 7GD >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >>>>>>> intended >>>>>>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >>>>>>> addressed. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the sender >>>>>>> > immediately. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> > disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Please note that >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> > views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>>>>> author and >>>>>>> > do not necessarily represent those of the company. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> > presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage >>>>>>> caused >>>>>>> > by any virus transmitted by this email. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Cherokee mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee >>>>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee> >>>>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee >>>>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Cherokee mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee >>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cherokee mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee >>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee> > > > _______________________________________________ > Cherokee mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee
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