We¹ve already done that for Zeus and, as I¹ve explained, I don¹t think I
would be able to secure more funding when we can just use Apache instead.
Although I personally believe it would be worth the investment - and that we
should always try to provide a better service than our competitors rather
than just copy them ­ it¹s very difficult to promote an unproven solution
over one that is being used by 70% of all sites on the web.

> 
> Then as a commercial venture, employ someone to create that functionality for
> you if you can't or won't yourself. Or experiment with the already available
> redirection handler which seems to do a fine job of replacing the mod_rewrite
> functionality. 
> 
> On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:11, Marcus Don <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> What it does is allow non-developers to install thousands of applications
>> into a shared hosting account without the need for them to employ a
>> developer. It¹s not a question of functionality, it¹s a matter of commercial
>> necessity.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>>> 
>>> Am I missing something? What does mod_rewrite do that the redirection
>>> handler doesn't do?
>>> 
>>> I think your approach may be a little off: no one is here to develop
>>> software for you regardless of how many perspective servers you want to use
>>> it with. That should be irrelevant to the discussion.
>>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:32, Marcus Don <[email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Tony
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your feedback.
>>>> 
>>>> We¹ve already invested a considerable amount in developing this software,
>>>> so I doubt I could secure more funding to adapt it to another platform.
>>>> Even if I could, there is no commercial case for us to continue funding the
>>>> ongoing development and maintenance when we can use Apache for free. So, by
>>>> providing such as significant head-start, I was hoping I could drum up
>>>> enough support among the existing Cherokee developers.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Marcus 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am sure everyone wants to see Cherokee use grow.  However, volunteer
>>>>> developers can only do so much.  They still have to earn a living.  If you
>>>>> are going to use it on that scale, which is great, why not put some money
>>>>> on the table as an investment for you and the community.  Even if it is
>>>>> not what you would pay a contractor, volunteers might be much more
>>>>> motivated.  You would still be benefiting from the incredible amount of
>>>>> work that has already gone into Cherokee.  Also, if use grows worldwide,
>>>>> you would benefit in the long run if other commercial companies decided to
>>>>> begin to deploy it and contribute back code.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tony Zakula
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Marcus Don <[email protected]
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>  <mailto:[email protected]
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > > wrote:
>>>>>> Since I've had virtually no response to my email below, I'll try again in
>>>>>> far fewer words.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm interested in using Cherokee to host around 50,000 sites and 600,000
>>>>>> domains, with the potential to extend this to 600,000 sites and 1.6
>>>>>> million
>>>>>> domains.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Unfortunately, our customers want mod_rewrite, which Cherokee doesn't
>>>>>> currently support. However, we own the source code for a mod_rewrite
>>>>>> equivalent, which we are willing to donate to Cherokee if enough people
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> interested.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you are interested in the possibility of Cherokee becoming a serious
>>>>>> alternative to Apache for commercial, mass hosting, please let me know.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > Hi
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Apologies in advance for the length of this email, please bear with me
>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > First an introduction: I'm senior manager of R&D for a group of ISPs
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>> > register.it <http://register.it>  <http://register.it
>>>>>>> <http://register.it> >  <http://register.it <http://register.it>
>>>>>>> <http://register.it <http://register.it> > > , names.co.uk
>>>>>>> <http://names.co.uk>  <http://names.co.uk <http://names.co.uk> >
>>>>>>> <http://names.co.uk <http://names.co.uk>  <http://names.co.uk
>>>>>>> <http://names.co.uk> > > , nominalia.es <http://nominalia.es>
>>>>>>> <http://nominalia.es <http://nominalia.es> >  <http://nominalia.es
>>>>>>> <http://nominalia.es>  <http://nominalia.es <http://nominalia.es> > > ,
>>>>>>> amen.fr <http://amen.fr>  <http://amen.fr <http://amen.fr> >
>>>>>>> <http://amen.fr <http://amen.fr>  <http://amen.fr <http://amen.fr> > > ,
>>>>>>> register365.com <http://register365.com>  <http://register365.com
>>>>>>> <http://register365.com> >  <http://register365.com
>>>>>>> <http://register365.com>  <http://register365.com
>>>>>>> <http://register365.com> > > ,  and
>>>>>>> > simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com>
>>>>>>> <http://simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com> >
>>>>>>> <http://simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com>
>>>>>>> <http://simplyhosting.com <http://simplyhosting.com> > > . As a group,
>>>>>>> we host over 1.6 million domains and 600,000
>>>>>>> > web sites.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Currently, we have 3 shared hosting clusters in Italy, the UK and
>>>>>>> Ireland. The
>>>>>>> > Italian platform is based on Apache and the UK and Irish platforms are
>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>> > on Zeus Web Server. We also have a legacy platform, inherited from a
>>>>>>> recent
>>>>>>> > acquisition, based on Apache and H-Sphere, which we are currently
>>>>>>> migrating to
>>>>>>> > Zeus.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Until recently, we have been very happy with our choice of Zeus Web
>>>>>>> Server. We
>>>>>>> > have gained a solid reputation in the UK for having a very
>>>>>>> high-performing and
>>>>>>> > reliable platform, and we have won the UK ISP Award (ISPA) for Best
>>>>>>> Shared
>>>>>>> > Hosting for the last 3 years running. However, we are now considering
>>>>>>> > migrating away from ZWS for the following reasons:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 1) It hasn't been updated since 2007, and Zeus will not commit to any
>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>> > updates other than security patches.
>>>>>>> > 2) It makes commercial sense for us to use the same technology
>>>>>>> everywhere in
>>>>>>> > the group.
>>>>>>> > 3) Zeus does not support mod_rewrite.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Given these requirements, and the fact we are already using it in
>>>>>>> Italy, the
>>>>>>> > obvious solution would be to use Apache on all platforms. However, I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> > seriously concerned that the performance would suffer as a result, so
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> > currently studying the feasibility of other options.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The need for mod_rewrite is a practical, commercial requirement based
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> > fact that many 3rd-party applications require rewrite rules, and the
>>>>>>> vast
>>>>>>> > majority only work with mod_rewrite without the intervention of a
>>>>>>> developer.
>>>>>>> > This has always been something of issue for us, and the growing
>>>>>>> popularity of
>>>>>>> > open source software among non-developers is greatly exacerbating the
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>> > Also, we now provide Softaculous for our customers, but we've had to
>>>>>>> disable
>>>>>>> > many of the 150+ applications because of their reliance on
>>>>>>> mod_rewrite.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Furthermore, when we started migrating the H-Sphere platform, we found
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> > unusually high proportion of domains are using mod_rewrite. During
>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>> > migrations, we have replaced them with Zeus rewrite scripts, but this
>>>>>>> time the
>>>>>>> > numbers are just too high.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > So, we recently employed an experienced C developer to write an ISAPI
>>>>>>> filter
>>>>>>> > to replicate exactly the behaviour of mod_rewrite under Zeus. However,
>>>>>>> > although this works perfectly in our development environment (even
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> > extremely heavy loads), after a few days on the live platform,
>>>>>>> something goes
>>>>>>> > very wrong. After several weeks of debugging, testing and reading
>>>>>>> memory
>>>>>>> > dumps, we're convinced the problem is with Zeus's ISAPI implementation
>>>>>>> - but
>>>>>>> > so far we are unable to prove it, and I'm not sure they would fix it
>>>>>>> even if
>>>>>>> > we could!
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > If you are interested, I am confident I could arrange for the source
>>>>>>> code of
>>>>>>> > our ISAPI Rewrite module to be released to the Cherokee project for
>>>>>>> use as an
>>>>>>> > optional module. Obviously, the ISAPI layer would need to be replaced,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> > this is a minor part of the code. All we ask in return is that someone
>>>>>>> adds
>>>>>>> > support for the other, mostly very simple, htaccess directives. I can
>>>>>>> ask the
>>>>>>> > original developer if he would be willing to contribute to this, but
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> > doesn't work for me so I can't guarantee it.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Without this functionality, the only other option available to us is
>>>>>>> LiteSpeed
>>>>>>> > - but I'm not keen on adopting another closed-source solution that
>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> > gaining significant market share. Also, I am convinced this is the
>>>>>>> only major
>>>>>>> > hurdle preventing other mass hosting providers from moving away from
>>>>>>> Apache to
>>>>>>> > something that scales more efficiently, such as Cherokee.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Lastly, I have another feature suggestion to address the needs of mass
>>>>>>> hosting
>>>>>>> > - support for custom document root mapping functions.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Currently, we use the same method as shown in the documentation - ie
>>>>>>> > /sites/e/x/example.com <http://example.com <http://example.com>
>>>>>>> <http://example.com <http://example.com> > > . This is fine for a few
>>>>>>> 10s of thousands of sites, but
>>>>>>> > not very efficient once you get beyond 100,000. A better solution is
>>>>>>> what we
>>>>>>> > use on our email clusters, which have many more users (around
>>>>>>> 1,000,000 in
>>>>>>> > Italy). This uses the last 3 characters of the MD5 checksum of the
>>>>>>> username,
>>>>>>> > like this: /email/5ab/example.com <http://example.com
>>>>>>> <http://example.com>  <http://example.com <http://example.com> > > .
>>>>>>> This produces a more even distribution and,
>>>>>>> > by being wide and shallow, allows for a much more efficient stat
>>>>>>> cache.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Regards
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Marcus
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > Marcus Don
>>>>>>> > Senior Manager
>>>>>>> > Research and Development
>>>>>>> > DadaPro
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Main Line:     +44 (0)845 363 3630
>>>>>>> > Main Fax:      +44 (0)845 363 3631
>>>>>>> > Tech Support:  +44 (0)845 363 3634
>>>>>>> > Email:         [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
>>>>>>> > Website:       http://www.names.co.uk <http://www.names.co.uk>
>>>>>>> <http://www.names.co.uk <http://www.names.co.uk> >
>>>>>>> > Address:       Acton House, Perdiswell Park, Worcester WR3 7GD
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>>>>>> intended
>>>>>>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>>>>>> addressed.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the sender
>>>>>>> > immediately.  If you are not the intended recipient you are notified
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> > disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> > contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Please note that
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> > views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>>>>>> author and
>>>>>>> > do not necessarily represent those of the company.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> > presence of viruses.  The company accepts no liability for any damage
>>>>>>> caused
>>>>>>> > by any virus transmitted by this email.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Cherokee mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee
>>>>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee>
>>>>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee
>>>>>> <http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee> >
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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