Den 12.11.2020 12:00, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin:
В сообщении от Thursday 12 November 2020 04:00:14 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):Firstly, I'm not a programmer, but as I'm retired and hope to spend some time forward to learn Cin-GG to edit my hobby recorded and archived SD and HDV.In general, the most user friendly would be if the automatic selected Preset format fits correctly to each loaded standard video w/audio file format. For unknown formats, PAL vs NTSC should preferably be choosed based on the actual time zone (CGG manual page 416, above Figure 13.1). *) User custom verification and selection of presets or video technical details, assume the user is skilled on the video format in use. Den 11.11.2020 18:54, skrev Andrew Randrianasulu via Cin:В сообщении от Wednesday 11 November 2020 20:12:44 Terje J. Hanssen via Cin написал(а):I will just add that the HDV format consist of three versions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#Specifications HDV 720p 720p/60, 720p/30, 720p/24, 720p/50, 720p/25but may be those can be already selected, just not as preset with HDV in name?720p/60 is the only 720p preset available. *) Each details can be custom selected, although not ideally?Yes, I was reluctant to add ALL variations because they will make list longer. But I can do this.
A sub-menu next for each of the three HDV groups seems to be even better, though more complicated(?)
According to the Wikipedia HDV specifications: 720p: Pixel aspect ratio 1.00 (PAR), Frame size in pixels 1280x720, Frame aspect ratio 16:9 (DAR), MPEG2 Video compr. (profile & level: MP@H-14/HL) 1080i: Pixel aspect ratio 1.33 (PAR), Frame size in pixels 1440x1080, Frame aspect ratio 16:9 (DAR), MPEG2 Video compr. (profile & level: MP@H-14) From the Cin Preset Canvas size I noticed the following proportions can be derived, in case they tell something ......... 720p: W Ratio/H Ratio=0.8889/0.6667=1.33, Width/W Ratio=1280/0.8889=1440, Height/H Ratio=720/0.6667=1080 1080i: W Ratio/H Ratio=1.3333/1.0000=1.33, Width/W Ratio=1920/1.3333=1440, Height/H Ratio=1080/1.000=1080HDV 1080i 1080i/30 (29.97), 1080i/25 HDV 1080p 1080p/30 (29.97), 1080p/24 (23.98), 1080p/25Those seems to be more tricky, because I still not sure how they should show up in Compositor and Viewer. With correct-for-display aspect ratio? But then how masks/titles will work?
I'm not sure about all other HD-video formats, but the HDV formats seems to be supported HDTV formats (broadcast standards) and supported Blu-ray video formats
1280x720 (HD-1) HD ready or Standard HD 1440x1080 (HD-2) and 1920x1080, (Full HD, FHD) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#Display_resolutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions#Digital_TV_standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_video#Common_high-definition_video_modes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Video
In case you have not seen it, the replies to my related mail request on the old CinCVS mail list might have some more information: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg05573.htmlYes, I see https://www.mail-archive.com/cinelerra%40skolelinux.no/msg05582.html this one not very encouraging: ====== Note that Cinelerra does two tasks: render and display. To render, Cinelerra treats the 1440:1080 as square pixels. This is not optimal if something you render has both horizontal and vertical extent, but is driven by only one parameter, like the radius of the radial grandient, a radial blur, or the 'feather' radius of the masks. Such things will turn into ellipses because: To display, Cinelerra simply stretches the available pixels to 16:9 ratio. -- Hannes ========= this question of you was left w/o answer, at least it was off-thread. https://www.mail-archive.com/cinelerra%40skolelinux.no/msg05586.html ====== For captured HDV and SD DV footages it looks like Cinelerra automatically takes care of scaling. What doesn't look quite clear for me yet, is what has to be done in Cinelerra for in cam downconverted HDV to anamorphic DV? ======= I'll use search and try to read code a bit more. I think I found manual on how to mix DV and HDV in same project in Cinelerra, but it was involving manual scaling? http://www.g-raffa.eu/Cinelerra/HOWTO/anamorphic.html#_how_to_add_16_9_anamorphic_footage_to_your_standard_4_3_project ah, no, it has no specific mention of HDV in this section, but our problem is indeed those non-square pixels, and how to paint over them ....
I found another, related mail thread (2016): [CinCV TNG] Create 16x9 video from 4x3 sources https://lists.cinelerra-cv.org/pipermail/cinelerra/2016q2/004927.html Terje J. H
This CinCVS Mail Archive is also searchable and contains several threads about that time new HDV format https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Terje J. HAt the same time I will also suggest to consistently use lower case "i" for all interlaced HDV and HD formats like that on the SD formats. Attached screen shots from the Set_Format_Preset menue.ok ....Terje J. H Den 01.11.2020 19:35, skrev Pierre autourduglobe via Cin:Yes it's clear HDV 1080i "Top field first" and DV "Bottom field first" In my case I can verify this with my old HDV camera HVR-Z1U, which can record and transfer either in HDV or DV (ntsc). Here is what mediainfo says about the material shot: An example of HDV material General ID : 255 (0xFF) Complete name : exemple.m2t Format : MPEG-TS Commercial name : HDV 1080i File size : 30.2 MiB Duration : 10s 878ms Start time : UTC 2016-01-11 11:15:03 End time : UTC 2016-01-11 11:15:14 Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 23.2 Mbps Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mbps Encoded date : UTC 2016-01-11 11:15:03 Video ID : 2064 (0x810) Menu ID : 100 (0x64) Format : MPEG Video Commercial name : HDV 1080i Format version : Version 2 Format profile : Main@High 1440 Format settings, BVOP : Yes Format settings, Matrix : Default Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15 Format settings, picture structure : Frame Codec ID : 2 Duration : 10s 544ms Bit rate : 21.7 Mbps Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps Width : 1 440 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) fps Standard : Component Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Top Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.466 Stream size : 27.3 MiB (90%) Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 Audio ID : 2068 (0x814) Menu ID : 100 (0x64) Format : MPEG Audio Format version : Version 1 Format profile : Layer 2 Codec ID : 3 Duration : 10s 584ms Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 384 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz Compression mode : Lossy Delay relative to video : -252ms Stream size : 496 KiB (2%) Menu ID : 129 (0x81) Menu ID : 100 (0x64) List : 2064 (0x810) (MPEG Video) / 2068 (0x814) (MPEG Audio) / 2069 (0x815) () / 2065 (0x811) () An example of DV material (ntsc) General Complete name : exemple.avi Format : AVI Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave Commercial name : DV File size : 446 MiB Duration : 2mn 3s Overall bit rate mode : Constant Overall bit rate : 30.3 Mbps Recorded date : 2015-10-08 15:18:53.000 Video ID : 0 Format : DV Codec ID : dvsd Codec ID/Hint : Sony Duration : 2mn 3s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps Encoded bit rate : 28.8 Mbps Width : 720 pixels Height : 480 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) fps Standard : NTSC Color space : /home/pierre/Bureau/MEDIAS_POUR_MONTAGE/AUTRES_sources/Pour_TESTS/Noir_de_camera/Noir_de_camera-HDV_HVR-Z1U_2016.01.11_11-15-03YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Bottom Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357 Time code of first frame : 00:00:02:08 Time code source : Subcode time code Stream size : 423 MiB (95%) Encoding settings : ae mode=manual / wb mode=pre-set / white balance=incandescent lamp / fcm=manual focus Audio ID : 1 Format : PCM Format settings, Endianness : Little Format settings, Sign : Signed Codec ID : 1 Duration : 2mn 3s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz Bit depth : 16 bits Stream size : 22.6 MiB (5%) Alignment : Aligned on interleaves Interleave, duration : 33 ms (1.00 video frame) Interleave, preload duration : 33 ms Pierre Le 20-11-01 à 09 h 49, Terje J. Hanssen via Cin a écrit :Sorry for my typo and confusion below, which should be To confirm DV "Bottom field first" and HDV 1080i "Top field first" .............. GeneralComplete name : /home/pierre/Bureau/MEDIAS_POUR_MONTAGE/AUTRES_sources/Pour_TESTS/Color-bars_référence_de_HVR-Z1U/Color_bars_DV.avi Format : AVI Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave Commercial name : DV Format profile : OpenDML File size : 2.12 GiB Duration : 10mn 1s Overall bit rate mode : Constant Overall bit rate : 30.3 Mbps Recorded date : 2015-10-05 11:09:56.000 Video ID : 0 Format : DV Codec ID : dvsd Codec ID/Hint : Sony Duration : 10mn 1s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps Encoded bit rate : 28.8 Mbps Width : 720 pixels Height : 480 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) fps Standard : NTSC Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Bottom Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357 Time code of first frame : 00:09:19:19 Time code source : Subcode time code Stream size : 2.02 GiB (95%) Audio ID : 1 Format : PCM Format settings, Endianness : Little Format settings, Sign : Signed Codec ID : 1 Duration : 10mn 1s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz Bit depth : 16 bits Stream size : 110 MiB (5%) Alignment : Aligned on interleaves Interleave, duration : 33 ms (1.00 video frame) Interleave, preload duration : 33 msTerje J. H Den 01.11.2020 15:29, skrev Terje J. Hanssen:Due to my email address change, my messages to the Cin list seem to await moderator approval. In the meantime I'm sorry to post a copy to Pierre and Andrew here. To confirm DV "Top field first" and HDV 1080i "Bottom field first" and verify more details on both PAL formats, I've added output using ffprobe and mediainfo on real video clips I've recorded as below: PAL- DV 720x576i /25, 25 Mbps, 8-bit Y.U.V. 4:2:0 ======= ========================================= (recorded to Hi8 tape with a Sony TR-2000E Hi8 camcorder, and next converted the S-video to .DV file using a Datavideo DN-300, Analog to Digital converter & HDV / DV Hard Disk Recorder)ffprobe dv01_07.dv.................... Input #0, dv, from 'dv01_07.dv': Metadata: timecode : 01:09:35:09 Duration: 00:01:53.28, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 28800 kb/s Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo, yuv420p, 720x576 [SAR 16:15 DAR 4:3], 25000 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536 kb/smediainfo dv01_07.dv...................... General Complete name : dv01_07.dv Format : DV File size : 389 MiB Duration : 1 min 53 s Overall bit rate mode : Constant Overall bit rate : 28.8 Mb/s Video Format : DV Duration : 1 min 53 s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s Width : 720 pixels Height : 576 pixels Display aspect ratio : 4:3 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 25.000 FPS Standard : PAL Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Bottom Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357 Time code of first frame : 01:09:35:09 Time code source : Subcode time code Stream size : 330 MiB (85%) Audio ID : 0 Format : PCM Format settings : Big / Signed Duration : 1 min 53 s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 16 bits Stream size : 20.7 MiB (5%) PAL - HDV 1440x1080i/ 25, 25 Mbps, 8-bit Y.U.V. 4:2:0 ===================================================== (recorded to miniHDV tape with a Sony HDR-FX7E HDV camcorder, and next to to .M2T file using a Datavideo DN-300 HDV / DV Hard Disk Recorder)ffprobe hdv01_03.m2t..................... Input #0, mpegts, from 'hdv01_03.m2t': Duration: 00:10:58.22, start: 1966.896000, bitrate: 26099 kb/s Program 100 Stream #0:0[0x810]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p(tv, bt709, top first), 1440x1080 [SAR 4:3 DAR 16:9], 25000 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc Stream #0:1[0x814]: Audio: mp2 ([3][0][0][0] / 0x0003), 48000 Hz, stereo, s16p, 384 kb/s Stream #0:2[0x815]: Unknown: none ([160][0][0][0] / 0x00A0) Stream #0:3[0x811]: Unknown: none ([161][0][0][0] / 0x00A1)mediainfo hdv01_03.m2t........................ General ID : 255 (0xFF) Complete name : hdv01_03.m2t Format : MPEG-TS Commercial name : HDV 1080i File size : 2.00 GiB Duration : 10 min 57 s Start time : UTC 2007-02-04 13:10:17 End time : UTC 2007-02-08 11:27:00 Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 26.1 Mb/s Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mb/s Encoded date : UTC 2007-02-04 13:10:17 Video ID : 2064 (0x810) Menu ID : 100 (0x64) Format : MPEG Video Commercial name : HDV 1080i Format version : Version 2 Format profile : Main@High 1440 Format settings : CustomMatrix / BVOP Format settings, BVOP : Yes Format settings, Matrix : Custom Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12 Format settings, picture structure : Frame Codec ID : 2 Duration : 10 min 57 s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mb/s Width : 1 440 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate : 25.000 FPS Standard : Component Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Top Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.628 Stream size : 1.87 GiB (94%) Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 Audio ID : 2068 (0x814) Menu ID : 100 (0x64) Format : MPEG Audio Format version : Version 1 Format profile : Layer 2 Codec ID : 3 Duration : 10 min 57 s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 384 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Frame rate : 41.667 FPS (1152 SPF) Compression mode : Lossy Delay relative to video : -192 ms Stream size : 30.1 MiB (1%) Menu ID : 129 (0x81) Menu ID : 100 (0x64) List : 2064 (0x810) (MPEG Video) / 2068 (0x814) (MPEG Audio) / 2069 (0x815) () / 2065 (0x811) () ---------------- Terje J. H
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