Yes of course it does - at least that's what we're hoping.
However, we've heard on this list that there are a "few" CCIEs out there
that aren't exactly up to par.
Whether you believe that or not is a personal thing I guess but I tend to
think that as a group, as with any group - there are CCIEs and then there
are CCIEs.
My point being is that I think the automatic "halo" has dimmed somewhat. So
even if someone is a CCIE..... if two CCIEs apply for the job - which one
gets it?
Back to the resume and then experience will break the tie. (as well as the
interview - the "fit" into the corporate culture - blah blah blah)
Kevin Wigle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Danson"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 25 April, 2001 21:39
Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
> I do agree with you there. Cisco's restructuring of its partner program
will
> decrease the demand for CCIE. It probably isn't as easy these days for all
> new CCIE's to start with 6 figure salaries.
>
> As far as showing accomplishment and ability, doesn't obtaining the CCIE
> certification show exactly that? Being a part of this small elite group is
a
> major accomplishment, and requires incredible skill to achieve. So doesn't
> this certification prove that the person has what it takes?
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Kevin Wigle"
> >To: "Fred Danson" ,
> >Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
> >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:22:45 -0400
> >
> >However those days are practically gone.
> >
> >With the recent restructuring of the Channel program which reduces the
> >amount of CCIE's by up to 75% for Gold and Silver partners - just being a
> >CCIE won't be enough.
> >
> >Your resume will have to show accomplishment and ability, and be a CCIE.
> >
> >Kevin Wigle
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fred Danson"
> >To:
> >Sent: Wednesday, 25 April, 2001 21:04
> >Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
> >
> >
> > > I do agree with you on many points Jason, but not all networking jobs
> >deal
> > > with the LAN. Eventually, I do plan to learn about Microsoft. UNIX,
> >Ect....
> > > But being in my current situation, my best course of action would be
to
> >work
> > > on the CCIE.
> > >
> > > In my earlier writing I was trying to emphasize the point that there
are
> > > many paths to take, but there is only one best path. I could choose to
> >work
> > > on learning the LAN now, but it is my belief that working towards the
> >CCIE
> > > would benefit me the most in the long run. I definitely do not plan to
> >just
> > > get the CCIE and then avoid the LAN alltogether. That wouldn't be a
very
> > > wise move.
> > >
> > > It's common knowledge that any lab-certified CCIE is pretty much
> >guaranteed
> > > six figures. In some cases companies recruit CCIE's just to achieve
> >silver
> > > or gold status with Cisco. Also, many positions within ISP's do not
> >require
> > > any LAN experience.
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Jason J. Roysdon"
> > > >Reply-To: "Jason J. Roysdon"
> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
> > > >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:27:43 -0400
> > > >
> > > >I won't argue that it's always wise to follow what other people did,
> >but
> >I
> > > >will make a few points.
> > > >
> > > >First is that unless you know at least a very good entry-level
> >knowledge
> >of
> > > >networking beyond the Cisco product line, you're not very useful. A
> >CCIE
> > > >who has never touched NT or Unix, bah, I don't see a huge value.
> > > >
> > > >I guess it varies on what you're doing and wanting to do, but for me,
> >70%
> > > >of
> > > >my time is spent helping a customer figure out what in the world they
> >need
> > > >me to do with the routers. I had a customer today that was going to
> >deploy
> > > >a DHCP server on each subnet because they didn't understand any other
> >way
> > > >to
> > > >do it. If I didn't know NetWare DHCP and NT DHCP servers, I wouldn't
> >have
> > > >been able to help them today beyond just saying "configure you DHCP
> >server
> > > >for scopes for those subnets." Yes, I know how to do the "ip
> > > >helper-address," but unless they can configure their DHCP servers,
that
> > > >knowledge doesn't do much. As it is, I spent 15 minutes explaining
how
> >the
> > > >whole thing would work, and then the rest of the day configuring
scopes
> >and
> > > >then finally implementing "ip helper-address" on all the necessary
> > > >interfaces.
> > > >
> > > >So, I do think it's necessary to have a good foundation in various
> >areas.
> > > >No, you don't need a paper cert to have that experience, but if
you're
> > > >going
> > > >to learn it and can chase down certs, you might as well so that
you've
> >got
> > > >proof to show customers who go bug-eyed at certs.
> > > >
> > > >It's like that commercial (I think IBM does it), where two consulting
> >guys
> > > >are telling this high-up exec a huge list of things he should
> >implement.
> > > >He
> > > >listens (clueless, of course), and says, "Great, do it!" to which
they
> > > >reply
> > > >something like, "Oh, we don't do anything, we just give consulting as
> >what
> > > >you need to do."
> > > >
> > > >Tomorrow I will be explaining to a customer why they need to not
permit
> >all
> > > >DMZ traffic into their Internal LAN, and what changes they'll have to
> >make
> > > >on their servers, including, but not limited to, DNS and WINS. I
don't
> > > >think there is anything in Cisco's line that will test you on those
> >topics.
> > > >
> > > >I know for me, the CCIE is not the "ultimate," but it's pretty damn
> >high
> >up
> > > >there. I have doubts I'll go back and upgrade my MCSE to Win2k if I
> >get
> >my
> > > >CCIE and can avoid it. I guess my point is once you get to a certain
> > > >level,
> > > >you're less likely to want to go back and do the things that would
help
> >you
> > > >more as they seem of a lesser value or skill set. I do know that I
> >won't
> > > >be
> > > >doing my CNE, but then I doubt those who don't have to deal with
Novell
> >on
> > > >a
> > > >daily basis see it as useful these days.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
> > > >List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >""Fred Danson"" wrote in message
> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > One thing that I ALWAYS notice when asking someone else for advice
> >is
> > > >that
> > > > > they ALWAYS advise me to take the same path that they did. No
matter
> >how
> > > > > dissimilar out situations are, I will always be advised to take
the
> >same
> > > > > route that they took.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, when I was finishing up with my CCNP certification, I
> >asked
> > > >for
> > > > > advise from several other people who also were finishing their
CCNP
> > > > > certifications. A few of the people that I asked were MCSE's and
> >they
> > > >all
> > > > > told me to go for MCSE before CCIE. Their reasoning was that I
> >wouldn't
> > > >be
> > > > > able to understand the WAN unless I had a solid understanding of
the
> > > >LAN.
> > > > > Now I do think that there is some logic to this statement, but I
> > > >definitely
> > > > > did not think that it made sense to put CCIE on hold for 5-6
months
> >just
> > > >to
> > > > > learn more about Microsoft.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think their real reasons for giving me such crappy advice is
that
> > > >they're
> > > > > afraid to admit that they made a mistake. If they suddenly
realized
> >that
> > > > > they wasted 7 months learning about Microsoft, would they be
willing
> >to
> > > > > admit this? I really doubt it! They would tell me to do what they
> >did
> >so
> > > > > they can boost their own egos! Or on the other hand, they wouldn't
> >tell
> > > >me
> > > > > not to do what they did because they would hurt theie egos.
> > > > >
> > > > > So now, instead of blindingly taking someone's advice, I take a
> > > >realistic
> > > > > look at all of my options. Being only 20 years old, I was advised
by
> > > >many
> > > > > "experienced professionals" to give it a few years before
attempting
> >the
> > > > > CCIE. Does it really take that long to learn all this stuff? I
> >really
> > > >don't
> > > > > think so. There is an abundance of information out there, and all
> >you
> > > >have
> > > > > to do is put in the extra effort to learn it. Heck, I didn't even
> >know
> > > >what
> > > > > a Router was until about 7 months ago, and I already have CCNA,
> >CCDA,
> > > >CCNP,
> > > > > and CCIE written.
> > > > >
> > > > > My point here is, don't listen to anyone that isn't in the same
> > > >situation
> > > >as
> > > > > you! Take a realistic look at your options and go for it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred Danson
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. - I have a problem with the statement "youth is a unique
illnes
> > > >that
> > > > > heals with time only". From what I hear, the older portion of the
> >CCIE
> > > > > candidates typically struggle with the time constraints on the
CCIE
> >Lab.
> > > >To
> > > > > my knowledge, cheese and wine are the things that improve with
age.
> >They
> > > >may
> > > > > have the wisdom, but you got the speed. Go for it!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Ruben Arias"
> > > > > >Reply-To: "Ruben Arias"
> > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Failed CCDA [7:1865]
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:09:11 -0400
> > > > > >
> > > > > >we're not offended because of your age, we're scared to death...
> > > > > >by the way, youth is a unique illnes that heals with time only.
> > > > > >Ruben
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > > > > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=2019&t=1929
--------------------------------------------------
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
