Fair enough. We all sometimes mislay our sources, me too ! I know the Mandolin was quite popular in Victorian England as a 'parlour' instrument. I recall reading somewhere, and seeing pictures too, but I cannot for the life of me remember where, that a version of the Mandolin known as 'Portugese style' was seen in Victorian times on account of it being both cheaper to build and easier for a novice player to hold. These were just about as 'flat' a top as you'd ever see on a Mandolin, and the back was arched - often made from around five (or so) panels. Side ribs were about two inches deep or maybe a little more so it was an easy instrument to handle and move around. Quite when the 'Portugese' design of Mandolin emerged I'm not too sure, but it seems to have been known in the nineteenth century and was still popular in the twentieth. I'd reckon that what is now termed the 'Celtic' mandolin is just a development of the 'Portugese' variety which is itself derrived from the Neapolitan one. I wouldn't be too surprised if citterns were occasionally referred to as 'Mandolas' in seventeenth century France - by visiting Italians and, perhaps, Aurtrians inluenced by the Italian 'music scene' of the time. Kevin. --- Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> KEVIN LAWTON wrote: > > 'The earliest confirmed occurence of flattops > they've > > come up with, is the C. F. Martin model introduced > in 1914.' > > Frank. The statement above does not seem to be up > to your usual levels > > of accuracy and intelligence. Would you care to > review it - or should I > > just argue anyway ? > > Well, I don't really feel my usual "levels of > accuracy and intelligence" > on this list is particularly high. ;-) (That's > sometimes on purpose > actually. Stupid questions sometimes bring good > answers.) > > In this case though, I'm just referring to info I've > received from > others. Even so, there really doesn't seem to be any > instruments > classified as "flattop mandolins" before the 20th > century. > > But perhaps I ought to explain a little more: > The term "flattop mandolin" means a bit more than > just an instrument > with flat soundboard. It's also tacitly implied that > the instrument has > a rounded body shape with a flat or arched back. In > other words: it's a > cittern that's not called a cittern. In fact, some > of the early flattop > mandolins didn't even have a flat top but rather a > bent one like > Neapolitan mandolins used to have! > Thus 19th C. inventions like the lyra-mandolin, the > harp-mandolin, the > mandolinetto and the archtop mandolin are not > included here but rather > regarded as separate variants. Anything with a > bowled back is by > definition not a flattop mandolin regardless of the > shape of the soundboard. > > I'm sure everybody here notice one basic problem > right away: In addition > to the criteria I've already mentioned there's > obviously one more > condition required for an instrument to be called a > flattop mandolin: It > has to be called a mandolin. If it isn't, it's just > yet another cittern. > ;-) It also has to be tuned in fifths - or at least > intended to be tuned > in fifths. > This of course causes a great deal of problems when > it comes to > determing when this instrument was invented. Very > similar instruments > have been around in Europe for centuries but they > were never regarded as > mandolins. (I was sure I read somewhere that > citterns were occasionally > reffered to as mandolas in 17th C. France but I > can't figure out where I > got that from so I guess it's just my memory playing > tricks on me.) > > > Frank Nordberg > http://www.musicaviva.com > http://www.tablatvre.com > http://www.mandolin-player.com > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
