Are we talking about flat-topped mandolins, or flat-backed mandolins (relatively speaking)?
On 20 Oct 2006, at 18:13, KEVIN LAWTON wrote: > Fair enough. We all sometimes mislay our sources, me > too ! > I know the Mandolin was quite popular in Victorian > England as a 'parlour' instrument. I recall reading > somewhere, and seeing pictures too, but I cannot for > the life of me remember where, that a version of the > Mandolin known as 'Portugese style' was seen in > Victorian times on account of it being both cheaper to > build and easier for a novice player to hold. These > were just about as 'flat' a top as you'd ever see on a > Mandolin, and the back was arched - often made from > around five (or so) panels. Side ribs were about two > inches deep or maybe a little more so it was an easy > instrument to handle and move around. > Quite when the 'Portugese' design of Mandolin emerged > I'm not too sure, but it seems to have been known in > the nineteenth century and was still popular in the > twentieth. I'd reckon that what is now termed the > 'Celtic' mandolin is just a development of the > 'Portugese' variety which is itself derrived from the > Neapolitan one. > I wouldn't be too surprised if citterns were > occasionally referred to as 'Mandolas' in seventeenth > century France - by visiting Italians and, perhaps, > Aurtrians inluenced by the Italian 'music scene' of > the time. > Kevin. > > --- Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> KEVIN LAWTON wrote: >>> 'The earliest confirmed occurence of flattops >> they've >>> come up with, is the C. F. Martin model introduced >> in 1914.' >>> Frank. The statement above does not seem to be up >> to your usual levels >>> of accuracy and intelligence. Would you care to >> review it - or should I >>> just argue anyway ? >> >> Well, I don't really feel my usual "levels of >> accuracy and intelligence" >> on this list is particularly high. ;-) (That's >> sometimes on purpose >> actually. Stupid questions sometimes bring good >> answers.) >> >> In this case though, I'm just referring to info I've >> received from >> others. Even so, there really doesn't seem to be any >> instruments >> classified as "flattop mandolins" before the 20th >> century. >> >> But perhaps I ought to explain a little more: >> The term "flattop mandolin" means a bit more than >> just an instrument >> with flat soundboard. It's also tacitly implied that >> the instrument has >> a rounded body shape with a flat or arched back. In >> other words: it's a >> cittern that's not called a cittern. In fact, some >> of the early flattop >> mandolins didn't even have a flat top but rather a >> bent one like >> Neapolitan mandolins used to have! >> Thus 19th C. inventions like the lyra-mandolin, the >> harp-mandolin, the >> mandolinetto and the archtop mandolin are not >> included here but rather >> regarded as separate variants. Anything with a >> bowled back is by >> definition not a flattop mandolin regardless of the >> shape of the soundboard. >> >> I'm sure everybody here notice one basic problem >> right away: In addition >> to the criteria I've already mentioned there's >> obviously one more >> condition required for an instrument to be called a >> flattop mandolin: It >> has to be called a mandolin. If it isn't, it's just >> yet another cittern. >> ;-) It also has to be tuned in fifths - or at least >> intended to be tuned >> in fifths. >> This of course causes a great deal of problems when >> it comes to >> determing when this instrument was invented. Very >> similar instruments >> have been around in Europe for centuries but they >> were never regarded as >> mandolins. (I was sure I read somewhere that >> citterns were occasionally >> reffered to as mandolas in 17th C. France but I >> can't figure out where I >> got that from so I guess it's just my memory playing >> tricks on me.) >> >> >> Frank Nordberg >> http://www.musicaviva.com >> http://www.tablatvre.com >> http://www.mandolin-player.com >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > >
