Hi Frank, the language connection between 'English guitar' and german 'Zither' is indeed a bit awkward. What you have read between the lines, could mean, that the portuguese 'Guitar' could be the "godfather" of the English 'Guitar'. That would turn things completely the other way round. But it is a good question and under the view of language developement, a good one Martina
"Frank Nordberg" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > I'll try not to make a habit out of replying to my own messages but I'm > more than a little bit surprised nobody commented on this one. Maybe > everybody are just too polite to tell me how completely wrong I am? > > Frank Nordberg wrote: > > Pedro Cabrals wrote: > > > The portuguese language diccionaries of Rafael Bluteau (1719) > > .. > > > refer the Cithara and the Guitarra as two different instruments, > > .. > > > > WHAT!!?! > > Doesn't that precede the first known appearance of the English guittar > > in *England*??? Is it possible we got it all wrong? Did the English > > guittar evolve from the Portuguese rather than the other way round? > > To elaborate a bit: > > + As far as I know, the word "guitarra" always means a cittern style > instrument in Portuguese. The regular guitar is and has always been > called a violao. It is of course possible that some Spanish terminology > was in temoprary use in Portugal but since Cabrals quotes a string of > similar sources over a prolonged time period, I don't think that can be > the explanation. > > + The way Cabrals put things also seems to indicate that the guitarra in > question is indeed a cittern style instrument and the predecessor to the > modern Portuguese guitar. > > + If the Portuguese guitar is mentioned and described in a 1719 > dictionary it should mean it had already been around a few years and > gained some popularity and recognition. > > + One problem with the commonly accepted notion of the English guittar's > German origin is that there doesn't seem to be any direct ancestor to > it. There were plenty of citterns in Germany in that time but it's hard > to see how they could have made a direct leap from the Hamburger > citrinchen or from the South-German zither (later to be known as the > Waldzither but at that time still very similar to a renaissance > cittern). There should have been some intermediate forms. > > + Another problem with the German connection is the name of the > instrument. How did "zither" become "guittar" - especially when there > already was a reasonably well known instrument called guitar in England > at that time? Around 1700 Portugal might have been the only European > country where the word guitar would have been recognised as a variant of > the word cittern rather than as the name of a completely different > instrument. > > Actually, I'm tempted to try to stretch the Portuguese distinction > between the Cithara and the Guitarra back two more centuries and see if > it hooks up with the similar distinction between the cittern and the > gittern but perhaps not - at least not yet. One thing at a time. > > > Frank Nordberg > http://www.musicaviva.com > http://www.tablatvre.com > http://www.mandolin-player.com > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > --
