Hi, Myra,
Personally, there are very few situations in which I can imagine
needing to co-own a puppy. But the point I was making was not what
people SHOULD do in how they own, but rather than contracts CAN be
written to reflect anything that the seller wants them to reflect within
reason. I hear objections to giving up co-ownership based on the
"bred-by class" or the need of the breeder to have their name on the pup
until it finishes. One CAN do this and disclaim a possessory interest
in the puppy and recite that the full payment has been made and such in
order to avoid the appearance that the co-ownership is a one half
undivided interest. A good lawyer can craft a legal contract that
allows for most (legal) situations. The point was that no one seems to
be able to find someone to put that language in place to avoid this; I
have to come to the conclusion that they either don't want to or don't
know it can be done.
Personally, having written thousands of contracts, I think that they
are all based on trusting the other party to a greater or lesser
extent. Most good lawyers avoid litigation like the plague. We learn
in law school (oh those many years ago..<G>) that if something comes to
litigation, it is usually because we haven't done a great job preventing
that from happening. NO one wins in court most of the time. However,
we CAN have such win-win situations as you described when we find people
we trust. I usually write something on paper as memory does fade over
time and good fences make good neighbors, etc. But I really agree with
you on all of this.
Suze
Myra Savant wrote:
>
> That's good to hear Suze, because in my heart of heart I thought you would
> think we were dumb to trust someone to make the right decision. The way we
> have always felt is that the breeders in the UK trusted us and sold us
> wonderful dogs with no strings attached, so that is how we have done it as
> well. I just hate the puppy pyramid scheme and it is everywhere you look.
> Myra Savant
>
> >From: "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] co-ownership
> >Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:33:27 -0400
> >
> >WOW. I wish I had found you when I was starting out, Myra,
> > It is so super to find someone who works on trust and expects the
> >same
> >respect. You have my admiration and my agreement that this is the best
> >way to go.
> >
> >Suze
> >
> >Myra Savant wrote:
> > >
> > > Suze: Well, actually it is not in the contract because I just don't
> >feel
> > > comfortable binding someone to anything. Maybe at some point in the
> >future,
> > > I could feel good about doing it but for the time being, we sold the
> >girls
> > > to friends that I trust to make good decisions when it comes time to
> >breed
> > > them. Another thing we did was to give a gift certificate for a free
> > > breeding to one of our boys to encourage the owner of the bitch puppy to
> > > allow us to have some input when it came time to breed the girl.
> >Basically,
> > > there are no strings attached to the girls except for our expressing
> >what we
> > > hope will happen....and what we want to happen, but no attempt on our
> >part
> > > to make it a legal contract. Also, we did it with the understanding
> >that if
> > > things don't happen the way that we hope, that's okay too. We can live
> >with
> > > it. I don't know if things will change for us in the future, but for
> >the
> > > time being, we did what our comfort level allowed us to do. Myra Savant
> > >
> > > >From: "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List
> > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] co-ownership
> > > >Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:25:35 -0400
> > > >
> > > >Hi, Myra,
> > > > So, in essence what you could have here if your contract was
> >so
> > > >worded
> > > >was a lien on the bitch in order to preserve your right of purchase of
> > > >the first pick of the litter. In my opinion this is the cleanest and
> > > >best way to do business unless you are TRULY investing with another
> > > >person in a bitch from whom you both want puppies in future. The
> >reason
> > > >for the lien would be to preserve your right to pick the stud, insist
> > > >that the bitch be bred, etc. in the chance that the other party changed
> > > >their mind.
> > > >
> > > >From my perspective this is all more trouble than it is worth. If I
> > > >want a pup from a particular bitch, then I'll breed the bitch until I
> > > >get what I want. If I want a stud from a dog I sell, then I'll reduce
> > > >the price and ask for one or two free studs in exchange.
> > > >
> > > >Suze
> > > >
> > > >cavlover wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We have done exactly what Laura has suggested, except that we have
> >made
> > > >it
> > > > > something of a condition of the sell of the puppy girl. We have the
> > > >right to
> > > > > purchase second pick puppy from the litters from our girls at full
> > > >price. We
> > > > > aren't asking for a discounted or a free puppy, but we are trying to
> > > >assure
> > > > > that we have first rights (after the owner) to a puppy from girls
> >of
> > > >our own
> > > > > breeding so that we can continue those same lines if we choose to.
> >Myra
> > > >Savant
> > > > >
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> > > >--
> > > >Suze at Llawen Cavaliers
> > > >"...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a
> >man
> > > >to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica
> > > >"Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear
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> >--
> >Suze at Llawen Cavaliers
> >"...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man
> >to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica
> >"Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear
> >
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--
Suze at Llawen Cavaliers
"...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man
to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica
"Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear
=========================================================
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