Same over here Myra except that we don't have points neverthe less you are only competing against one Pug, one Peke,one Charlie etc etc When Mollie won BPIS at the Three Counties show last year she was only competing against seven other puppy group winners, despite the fact that there would have been several hundred puppies entered over the three days of the show. That is why I said the odds were reduced at group level compared to at breed level
Annette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > Things must be quite different in the UK from the US. Here, if your dog > beats the pug in group.....your dog is considered to have beaten all of the > pugs entered that day. He is awarded points based on how many pugs were > entered. He beat the pug who was considered the best pug entered, therefore > when he beats the pug, he beat the dogs that were beaten by that pug. Maybe > we are talking oranges and apples here. Different countries, different > situations. Myra > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0000 > > > >VBG correction Myra you are only competing against the winners of the > >classes - i.e. one from each breed. I forget how many there are in the Toy > >group in the US but lets say 20 - so you have a twenty to one chance in the > >group against 30 to one in the breed of taking BOB > > > >Annette > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:32 PM > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > Annette, I agree with you. But....I wasn't talking about specialty > >shows. > > > I was talking about AKC shows, and the number is never anywhere near as > > > large. A good sized AKC show here may have 30 cavaliers entered and > >that > >is > > > the total for all classes and includes both genders. That is why I said > > > that a class win is not as meaningful as the breed win which is followed > >by > > > being shown in the toy group ring. The class win, which you may have > >won > >by > > > competing against 4-5 cavaliers is not as meaningful as a win in the > >group > > > ring where you have essentially competed against several hundred other > >toy > > > dogs. Myra > > > > > > > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:55:43 -0000 > > > > > > > >Sorry Myra I disagree! VBG It's at breed level the real competition is > >- > >if > > > >you beat a couple of hundred others of the same breed to me that is far > > > >better than beating one of every other breed in the Toy group. There it > > > >boils down very much to the knowledge of the judge and at the end of > >the > > > >day > > > >his/her personal preference - nothing to do with structure or movement > >- > > > >there are other breeds that have exactly the same problems or similar > >at > > > >any > > > >rate. > > > > > > > >Annette > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:57 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Curious > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, everybody knows I am an idiot, and there are many things that > >I > > > >don't > > > > > know. However, this is something to ponder. The real "showing" > >isn't > > > >done > > > > > at a class level. It is done at a group level. For too many years, > > > > > cavaliers were judged in sort of a vacumn because they were judged > >only > > > > > against each other. It was almost like 'just go for the pretty head > > > >because > > > > > all the rear ends are so bad.' So, they didn't have to develop that > > > >kind > > > >of > > > > > structure that they needed to compete with a poodle, for instance. > >It > > > >is > > > > > important to remember that they are dogs. They need to be built > >like > >a > > > >dog. > > > > > They need to move like a well-built dog. Now for the last several > > > >years, > > > > > they have had to compete against other toy dogs in the group ring. > > > >Sure, > > > >we > > > > > see dogs in the ring that shouldn't be there. I've probably shown a > > > >couple > > > > > myself. I probably will again in the future just because of > >ignorance > > > >or > > > > > just because I feel like doing it. However.....those dogs will not > >ever > > > > > compete in a group ring. They will take their little ribbon home > >and > > > >they > > > > > may even make up their championship. They will not, however succeed > >in > > > >the > > > > > group ring. Also....if a dog places in group, you can no longer use > >the > > > > > excuse that it won because it was professionally handled. The huge > > > >majority > > > > > of dogs in the group ring are professionally handled. Not > >all....but > > > >the > > > > > majority. I'm not sure exactly what motivates me to show my dogs. > >I > > > >know > > > > > for sure it isn't greed. I guess it could be ego. The feeling I > >get > > > >when > > > > > one of my dogs wins in group, or Best Puppy in show or something > >like > > > >that > > > > > is the same feeling I used to get when my children performed at a > >piano > > > > > recital or something. I just feel proud of them, and I feel just a > > > >little > > > > > bit like bragging on them. Certainly not money motivated and not > >even > > > > > particularly fun. When my dog is in the show ring, I am very > >stressed > > > >about > > > > > it. I get very nervous. I'm so afraid he will make a mistake. > >Just > > > > > exactly like it was at the piano recital. So, is that Ego? I don't > > > > > honestly know. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > Search the Archives... > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > >========================================================= > > > >"Magic Commands": > > > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > >to start it up gain click here: > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > "Magic Commands": > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > >========================================================= > >"Magic Commands": > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > >to start it up gain click here: > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
