Hey, wait a minute here, Dave. Hold the phone. Do you mean to tell me that you think that co-owns and puppies back are because the breeder either wants money, advertising, puppies or control, or because of an unwillingness to change old ways of doing things? How novel. Myra
>From: Dave Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Reasons for Co-Own >Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 01:27:13 EDT > >Co-ownerships (cringe cringe) > >A few comments on this thread again I have grouped several to stay WAYYYY >under the 15 post limit he he he.... > > >Myra wrote: ><<In a lot of cases, Glenn...the breeder wants their name on >the puppy no matter what it's quality is, so they get puppies back from >you. The puppy pyramiders don't really care all that much about quality; >only quantity.>> > >AMEN and there is a LOT of that out there. Not to mention those who want >to >assure everybody everywhere has heard of them and their kennel. Free >advertising. > >Pat Barrington wrote: ><<> My main reason to co-own a puppy I produced would be to ensure that no > > breeding happened that I was not in favour of. This helps to ensure >your > > input; >> > >I would say if you don't know the purchaser of a breedable puppy well >enough >to trust them then don't sell them a breedable puppy. Could someone fool >you? Sure. Is there a risk? Sure. I have been told in the past though >that the co-ownerships often do little to stop someone from breeding >irresponsibly. If they are just out to make money they don't care what >body >they register with if any and there are ways around papers. I think if you >want that much input and can't trust the purchaser to allow you such don't >sell them the puppy. I also don't think it is fair when breeders sell a >pup >for show then demand the right to tell the person who to breed to. >Suggest... great.... council... excellent... demand if they disagree? No >way. Often times the purchaser on a co-ownership has nothing more then a >rental property they can use at the owners direction. For some that is ok, >for me... If I pay that much I want to own not rent. > > > <<Co-ownership agreements also serve as a safety net. IF I were placing >a > > show prospect puppy with a relative newcomer/inexperienced breeder, I >would > > always do a co-ownership for that reason.>> > > > > <<Another good reason for co-ownership is to ensure your particular > > standards of health > > testing, showing prior to a breeding.>> > >Again. If you need a legal document to get the purchaser of your puppies >to >listen to you then in my opinion you either gravely misjudged the purchaser >or never had the relationship to be successful in that arrangement in the >first place. > >Some people like co-ownerships, I obviously do not. For some people they >work out well and in fact some buyers feel better in having them, somewhat >of >a security blanket that the breeder won't abandon them. In most instances >I >think they are unneccessary at best and downright unfair at worst. > > > <<> transfer the puppy/adult to the name of > > the buyer once your mutually agreed > > upon conditions have been met. >> > >If there is no clause on how/when the co-ownership is satisfied and full >ownership is granted then I would be really wary. > ><<> back, or advertising. >> > >No they are not always. Some are generally good intentioned and some work >out very well. I would say the majority though fall into the categories >listed above with the additions of "control" and "thats the way we always >have done it" as additional reasons. > > Jackie wrote: ><<Why not ask for a puppy back? I've only ever done two co-owns and >both of them were with the understanding that if the bitch had a >show potential pup that the co-owner did not want to run on, I would >have the option to take that puppy for myself and then the co- >ownership would be dissolved>> > >I think it is unfair to ask full price for a puppy then in any manner a >puppy >back free of charge. This is asking the buyer to pay twice. An inflated >rate for the one dog they get from the deal. > >Candy Roper wrote: ><<I didn't find any breeder willing to >sell outright when I went looking for a Cavalier>> > >A vast majority of the breeders in the USA will insist on a co-ownership of >a >show quality Cavalier. For a myriad of reasons they require it. Somehow >we >need to find out the secrets of the overseas crowd who sell splendid >specimans here with no such strings and yet still seem to be able to avoid >the pitfalls the USA crowd insists they need the co-ownerships for >protection >from. The good news is there are people who will sell a good dog outright >and still do it in a manner that protects the dog as much as any >co-ownership. > ><<By co-owning my girl with her breeder, I have a direct line to >information & support if needed. I don't have to struggle quite so much >with the "learning curve" of my chosen new breed - I have a "guaranteed >mentor" (if I choose wisely - which I did). There are definite plusses >to co-owning, & being able to learn from my breeders involvement in the >breed is the biggest I can think of!>> > >As you can see co-ownerships work for some people. If that is you by all >means go for it. But don't feel you have to. I think good breeders will >be >willing to do all of the above, mentor, guide, teach, etc. without being >forced into it by the obligation of a co-ownership. > >Did I mention I feel most are after money, puppies, advertising, control, >and >or do it because "thats the way it has always been done?" > >Dave >CastleMyst Cavaliers >http://members.aol.com/CMystCavs > > > >========================================================= >"Magic Commands": >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL >to start it up gain click here: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
