Peggy, this is a very, very good post. Thank you for taking the time to write it. Myra
>From: Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] N American dogs showing in the UK >Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:27:24 -0400 > >Some judges do enforce the rules...and those that do, don't discriminate >between >handlers and owner handlers. I have seen handlers tossed out for having >colored >their dogs with daffy...when they had not done so. I have seen judges >place dogs >who, when they shook, clouds of white flew out from around them (and I've >seen >this in other countries besides the USA, too). > What is it that you think I would not be willing to share? If you >are sure >that someone is using a foreign substance on a dog, you are allowed to make >a >protest...if you are in the ring, it is free. If you are outside the ring, >it >costs you what, $25? And these things can and do get done...people call >for >measurements and things like that all the time...if they are >disqualifications. >The Cavalier standard does not disqualify...so what would your protest >serve? > There are judges who have announced to exhibitors that they were not >going to >place the Cavalier in question because the feathers on the feet were, in >that >judges opinion, trimmed. There are judges who would never notice or if >they did, >would ignore it. >It isn't a dq...they can't throw the dogs out for trimming. > Foreign substances are not allowed...the opinion is left up to the >judge, but >you are free to protest a dog that you think is dyed or "enhanced." It >doesn't >matter who's holding the lead, anyone can protest these things. > I don't know how you'd prove the dog is dyed, altho it is easy to >prove the >presence of chalk and sometimes, even daffy. Here in the States, with >people not >at all inhibited about suing, a judge might be sued if he or she dismissed >a dog >for being dyed, and the exhibitor could prove the dog wasn't...that might >be why >more don't do it...altho the rule does say "in the judge's opinion." > Dogs in the UK HAVE been disqualified for being dyed...and it was >proven >scientifically that the dogs in question had been dyed. > I think that by now, after 7 years (I think that's what you said) >you'd have >gotten over your prejudice against handlers. They are a part of the dog >world >here, and that's a fact. In some breeds in the UK, they are a fact of life >too. >Some people use handlers because they don't have anyone at home to leave >the rest >of their dogs with, others because they are stinko at handling. Yes, there >are >some who use handlers because handlers win more than owners...handlers work >harder than most owners. > I hate to say this, because I don't want to get into a name calling >contest >or anything...but the fault is with the judges, not the handlers. Most >professional handlers work their butts off to do the best job they can with >what >they have. Most owners do not, or if they do, they are only doing it for >one or >two dogs. > I think you need to expand your horizons. Watch handlers at >work...they are >the first line of help when someone has a problem at a show...ALWAYS. They >are >the first place to go when your dog suddenly gets the pukes or the >runs...the >handlers have meds that can help. They are up before dawn getting their >dogs >ready, and most (not all) of them have spent their lives learning how to >show >dogs and how to show them well. There was a time when the top handlers >wouldn't >take a less than top quality dog...economics prevent this these days. > I don't think you give the handlers a fair shake, Dave...and I do >think you >need to expand your horizons insofar as they are concerned. > Back to my opinion in answer to your question...you can't make judges >enforce >the rules. If you think a judge is prejudiced towards the professionals, >don't >enter under that judge. Join an all-breed club and don't let the club hire >that >judge (or at least try). If you think there are judges who consistently >ignore >dogs who are shown in violation of the rules, you have the right to >protest, and >you also have the right to write letters to the AKC and complain. > BTW - it is not at all political suicide for a judge to judge dogs on >the >day, to excuse dogs for the presence of a foreign substance, or anything >else. >It is much more likely that a judge commits political suicide if they >always make >the wrong choices--keep in mind that if you play bingo every day, you win >sometimes. > Handlers do anywhere from 40 to 150 shows a year. They work hard and >not all >of them cheat. How many shows do you do...and how many dogs do you show at >those >shows? > It is miserable to lose because the judge never looked at the south >end of >the lead...been there, done that (as an exhibitor). It is a hallmark of a >novice >to blame that on the handler instead of on the judge. >Peggy > >Dave Wagner wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/6/2002 9:14:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > <<Firstly, I don't think the original post spoke to any fear of >professional > > handlers catching on in England...just whether some of ours might go >there to > > show dogs. >> > > > > Actually I think they were referencing an article that referred to >culture > > clash and I consider the way I saw Cavaliers shown over there vs what I >see > > in the pro ranks here just that .... MAJOR culture clash. > > > > > <<Also, you can have NOTHING on the coat except water here, either, if >you > > > are > > > talking about the rules. Ever heard the term "foreign substance?" >And > > > the next > > > time you go to the UK, Dave, take a walk around the vendors...they >sell > > > chalk, > > > and finishing sprays, and oils, and conditioners...surely they aren't >just > > > there > > > for the visiting Americans. > > > Peggy>> > > > > > > > Well that shows my ignorance. While I knew the chalk and magic markers >some > > breeds use happily coloring their dogs in the open and powders all over >the > > tables and floors, etc were probably illegal at least in some breeds, I > > thought here as long as the substance didn't alter the appearance of the >dog > > such as chalk, it was allowed such as a finishing spray that just makes >it > > shinier or removes static cling. In fact there is so much powder flying > > around the grooming areas and piles left on the tables and floor and >magic > > markers like an art class to the extreme I thought in some breeds here >it > > surely must be legal to be so blatantly applied with no fear of >repurcussion. > > Learn something new every day. > > > > I have no doubt if you say the booths in the UK are selling these things >that > > they are Peggy you have probably been there many more times then me and >I > > didnt walk the booths. My statements were based on the fact that I >didn't > > see the blow dryers and powder clouds coming out of grooming tents and >big > > tufts of hair blowing around etc when I was in the UK. I did not feel >the > > Cavaliers I saw displayed there where nearly as primped and fluffed as >what I > > have seen here. It could just be my untrained eye. > > > > I do have one question for you ... being a long time judge and all. Do > > judges here not enforce these rules or are they just not good enough to >tell > > if something outside the rules has been done? If the judges are not >going to > > enforce the rules why don't we just change them to allow those following >the > > rules to compete on even keel with good conscience? Do you have any >opinion > > on any way to get judges to actually enforce the rules or do you feel it >is a > > lost cause. I'm looking for an experienced opinion which I know you >have but > > not so sure you are willing to share. My opinion is it would be >political > > suicide for a judge thats why they don't enforce these things especially > > against big name well connected handlers. > > > > Dave > > CastleMyst Cavaliers > > http://members.aol.com/CMystCavs > > > > ========================================================= > > "Magic Commands": > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > to start it up gain click here: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > >========================================================= >"Magic Commands": >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL >to start it up gain click here: >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
